Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sue Sponte · 02-25-2003, 11:25 PM

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Also from this standpoint of a God creating gay monkeys one must assume from the christian standpoint the effect that sin has had on not just man but animals as well.

This is one of the funniest things I've read in weeks. Thanks for the laugh.

Captain Pedantic · 02-26-2003, 05:28 AM

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Originally posted by rubbercok3000
Also from this standpoint of a God creating gay monkeys one must assume from the christian standpoint the effect that sin has had on not just man but animals as well.

So...the monkeys caught the gay from humans? Is this what you're suggesting? Or were the monkeys tempted by Satan? I suppose they need to find Jesus, or something.

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Whether or not there is an objective standard is really not the case here. The case being that gay = wrong.

Wrong how? Wrong like "pi=3" is wrong? Because you sure don't hear the Bible complaining about that mistake.

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The case here is whether or not a faith such as christianity should embrace it. The answer is no. Should the Oakland Raiders embrace the Super Bowl as "just for fun" or should they do what is right for the team and fans(ie win).

It's not the winning that counts, it's the taking part. And aren't all men equal in the eyes of the Lord, or is it only the ones who win at crap sports who get the heavenly benefits?

Anyway, what does a supremely rubbish sport have to do with gay marriage, or the Christian Churches, or anything in any way at all?

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Should the church accept whatever doctrine is tossed at them by a bunch of flamers(ie gay marriage) or should they stick to the doctrines which make them what they are.

Presumably, calling people names (we don't call people "flamers" round here, it's rude) and dismissing their complaints (not to mention not using question marks in the right place) is part of what makes you the truly unique and special little snowflake in God's holy blizzard that you are.

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Shhould an atheist accept God because others feel it is ridicuous........ no, you are what you are. But dont try to get the Christian God to be Gung - Ho over the fact that you are performing twisted acts of sexual deviance and moral ineptitiude and expect a blessing.

You should know that many religious places all over the world do, in fact, perform blessings for gay couples. However, those blessings count for little in the eyes of the law in most countries. So the problem is, in reality, a legal one.

Of course, you'll probably say that wicked and evil sinners being allowed to get married in a church shows that the people who run that particular parish are not real Christians at all! Certainly not like you!

But plenty of other "sinners" get married in a church. Quite a few agnostics have been married in a church, not to mention adulterers, liars, thieves, and even rapists and murderers.

But they were all good heterosexuals, so presumably that makes it a-okay. Honestly, can you people not see your way to showing some of that "Christian Love" you keep harping on about (of which I have seen little). Even if the people you have to show it to are filthy perverts like me.

rubbercok3000 · 02-26-2003, 11:17 AM

Just for the record I am merely arguing from the standpoint of a fundamentalist Christian. I myself am not entrenched in dogma. The bottom line here is that just like your not going to get a member of the Islam community to accept Christ, your not gonna get a Christian community to embrace the indoctrination of gay marriage. I mean really, get married if you want to by the state but DO NOT EXPECT THE CHILDREN OF GOD OF ANY RELIGON TO EMBRACE YOUR SICK SODOMISTIC WAYS. All people that get married are not perfect but the whole point of a christian marriage must be taken into the context of the objective standard (the bible). No where in the Bible is homosexuality embraced or accepted by Christ or his followers. All sinners are accepted but dont expect God to be blessing something that he never intended to happen. I am not saying I am any better than a gay person but it is fundamentally wrong if you have any sort of moral standard to accept sexual deviance. IT WILL BE A SAD DAY WHEN HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGES ARE TAKING PLACE IN THE HOLY PLACES. WHERE YOU CANT GO ANYWHERE TO BE AWAY FROM THE GUILTLESS COMMUNITY. WHAT NEXT ARE WE GONNA ACCEPT CHILD MOLESTATION.

winstonjen · 02-26-2003, 02:54 PM

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Originally posted by rubbercok3000
WHAT NEXT ARE WE GONNA ACCEPT CHILD MOLESTATION.

Actually, heterosexuals are much more likely to be child molesters. And if you've been paying attention to your church, they have already accepted child molesters and pedophiles. They even encourage them by hiding the activity and shifting them to a new parish.

rubbercok3000 · 02-26-2003, 03:31 PM

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Actually, heterosexuals are much more likely to be child molesters. And if you've been paying attention to your church, they have already accepted child molesters and pedophiles. They even encourage them by hiding the activity and shifting them to a new parish

Actually now that I think about it your right. The church really is not some "safe haven" that any man can run too to escape the evils of the world, for it too is corrupted. We may as well accept gay marriage in the church, worship idols and smoke a hell of a lot of grass cause there is no "OBJECTIVE TRUTH". Right? Isnt that the issue here. Not gay marriages but Objective truth vs Relativism? There is no standard of right or wrong? The religions of the world have a right or wrong which is only apparent in the cultural paradigm of the times. So fuck it all and do what you want. In that case I may just start killing gays because hell there is no right or wrong. Whats the difference!!!!!!!!

rubbercok3000 · 02-26-2003, 03:34 PM

Actually though disregarding my last post the real issue as far as the gay marriage goes does not concern the church. Marriage itself is litigated by the government and not the religious institutions. With that in mind take it up with your local congress and have all the sausage fests you want. It is not the churches responsibility.

winstonjen · 02-26-2003, 03:35 PM

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Originally posted by rubbercok3000
Actually though disregarding my last post the real issue as far as the gay marriage goes does not concern the church. Marriage itself is litigated by the government and not the religious institutions. With that in mind take it up with your local congress and have all the sausage fests you want. It is not the churches responsibility.

Really? The church has significant lobbying power.

Gregg · 02-26-2003, 04:12 PM

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Originally posted by rubbercok3000
Just for the record I am merely arguing from the standpoint of a fundamentalist Christian. I myself am not entrenched in dogma.

To be a fundamentalist is to be entrenched in dogma. Fundamentalism is dogmatism. "Entrenched in dogmatism" is the definition of a fundamentalist. If you're not dogmatic, you're not a fundamentalist.

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The bottom line here is that just like your not going to get a member of the Islam community to accept Christ, your not gonna get a Christian community to embrace the indoctrination of gay marriage.

You mean a True Christian (tm) community, I presume.

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I mean really, get married if you want to by the state

They can't. Gay marriage is illegal.

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but DO NOT EXPECT THE CHILDREN OF GOD OF ANY RELIGON TO EMBRACE YOUR SICK SODOMISTIC WAYS.

Several Christian denominations do perform gay "marriages" (although these marriages aren't legally recognized. Of course, these denominations are not True Christian (tm) denominations, I guess.

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All people that get married are not perfect but the whole point of a christian marriage must be taken into the context of the objective standard (the bible).

Oh yeah, that book where nobody can agree what it means and that is full of all sorts of contradictions and inconsistencies.

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No where in the Bible is homosexuality embraced or accepted by Christ or his followers.

And nowhere in the Bible is slavery condemned. In fact, it's encouraged. Southerners knew their Bible. They knew perfectly well that God wanted them to have slaves and that God was on their side, because anyone who reads the plain words of the Bible knows that God approves of slavery. Obviously, when the North won the Civil War, it was a victory for Satan.

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All sinners are accepted but dont expect God to be blessing something that he never intended to happen. I am not saying I am any better than a gay person but it is fundamentally wrong if you have any sort of moral standard to accept sexual deviance. IT WILL BE A SAD DAY WHEN HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGES ARE TAKING PLACE IN THE HOLY PLACES. WHERE YOU CANT GO ANYWHERE TO BE AWAY FROM THE GUILTLESS COMMUNITY. WHAT NEXT ARE WE GONNA ACCEPT CHILD MOLESTATION.

Idiot. Can't you tell the difference between consensual and non-consensual sex? Sex with children is wrong because children are physically, sexually, and emotionally immature and are incapable of giving informed consent. What two consenting ADULTS do together is nobody's business but their own.

The vast majority of homosexuals find paedophilia just as morally repugnant as heterosexuals do. Actually, most paedolphiles are probably heterosexual. The only reason you find so many male paedophiles molesting boys is that they find it easier to get access to boys. It's youthfulness they find attractive, not the gender.

Of course, I've just wasted my time typing all this, because there's no way it can get through to a mind like yours.

Gregg

Sue Sponte · 02-26-2003, 10:01 PM

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And nowhere in the Bible is slavery condemned. In fact, it's encouraged. Southerners knew their Bible. They knew perfectly well that God wanted them to have slaves and that God was on their side, because anyone who reads the plain words of the Bible knows that God approves of slavery. Obviously, when the North won the Civil War, it was a victory for Satan.

This came to my mind as well when I read this thread. So much for the "objective truth", when its followers can subjectively choose to ignore those parts that history to date has shown to be immoral and repressive.

If a Christian believes that the bible is the objective truth with respect to morality, that person should spend as much time advocating for the return of slavery as he/she does opposing homosexuality, abortion, or any other of the currently acceptable forms of Christian sanctimony.

rubbercok3000 · 02-27-2003, 12:12 AM

Well all in all I think you guys are right. In the end the Christian doctrine of Atonement is what that religion boils down to. You are screwed from the beginning and no matter how good or bad you are you are still equally out of favor in God's eyes. With this in mind even if gay marriages are accepted by the church but it is in all actuallity wrong in God's eyes, it doesnt matter. Jesus always forgives if you accept him and so gays really have nothing to worry about. If they truly love Jesus and still think it ok to have sex with another of the same sex, then let God sort it out right? Judge not lest ye be judged. There is only one perfect being. That is Jesus Christ. No matter how hard you try you will never be as good as him. He is the master. So continue your life as a gay Christian. Because you know your place. :notworthy Jesus came to end the cycle of birth and death and liberate from the chains of the gods. He is the perfect soul of the One God and the only perfect good.

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02-26-2003, 11:17 AM	#23
rubbercok3000 Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 119	Just for the record I am merely arguing from the standpoint of a fundamentalist Christian. I myself am not entrenched in dogma. The bottom line here is that just like your not going to get a member of the Islam community to accept Christ, your not gonna get a Christian community to embrace the indoctrination of gay marriage. I mean really, get married if you want to by the state but DO NOT EXPECT THE CHILDREN OF GOD OF ANY RELIGON TO EMBRACE YOUR SICK SODOMISTIC WAYS. All people that get married are not perfect but the whole point of a christian marriage must be taken into the context of the objective standard (the bible). No where in the Bible is homosexuality embraced or accepted by Christ or his followers. All sinners are accepted but dont expect God to be blessing something that he never intended to happen. I am not saying I am any better than a gay person but it is fundamentally wrong if you have any sort of moral standard to accept sexual deviance. IT WILL BE A SAD DAY WHEN HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGES ARE TAKING PLACE IN THE HOLY PLACES. WHERE YOU CANT GO ANYWHERE TO BE AWAY FROM THE GUILTLESS COMMUNITY. WHAT NEXT ARE WE GONNA ACCEPT CHILD MOLESTATION.

02-26-2003, 03:34 PM	#26
rubbercok3000 Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 119	Actually though disregarding my last post the real issue as far as the gay marriage goes does not concern the church. Marriage itself is litigated by the government and not the religious institutions. With that in mind take it up with your local congress and have all the sausage fests you want. It is not the churches responsibility.

02-27-2003, 12:12 AM	#30
rubbercok3000 Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 119	Well all in all I think you guys are right. In the end the Christian doctrine of Atonement is what that religion boils down to. You are screwed from the beginning and no matter how good or bad you are you are still equally out of favor in God's eyes. With this in mind even if gay marriages are accepted by the church but it is in all actuallity wrong in God's eyes, it doesnt matter. Jesus always forgives if you accept him and so gays really have nothing to worry about. If they truly love Jesus and still think it ok to have sex with another of the same sex, then let God sort it out right? Judge not lest ye be judged. There is only one perfect being. That is Jesus Christ. No matter how hard you try you will never be as good as him. He is the master. So continue your life as a gay Christian. Because you know your place. :notworthy Jesus came to end the cycle of birth and death and liberate from the chains of the gods. He is the perfect soul of the One God and the only perfect good.

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