Starboy

I have serious doubts if a devoutly religious person would know if something was real even if it bit'em in the *ss. Think about it, for their entire lives they have been taught that what cannot be shown to exist is real. Once they get that under their belt, calling something that is real unreal is child’s play. If you are going to continue the "friendship" you will have to get used to your friend looking down upon you from their perch in unreality.

Starboy

2tadpoles

I think that the world "tolerance" is over- and misused. Tolerance basically means "putting up with." I tolerate a lot of crap I encounter in the world; that doesn't mean I like it or agree with it.

I, like you, don't mind religion (in general) too much but Christianity makes me crazy. I have friends, however, who are Christian, and although I don't like or respect their spiritual beliefs, I tolerate those beliefs because I like those people as people.

babelfish

What is "spirit" divorced from "mind?"

i.e., please show me how "mind" and "spirit" are two separate entities.

And I find it very amusing how Christians, even obviously dissatisfied, unhappy Christians, walk around proclaiming how joyful and peaceful they feel.

They must be referring to their elusive spirits, because their minds are obviously in turmoil.

brighid

I don't think tolerance equates to simply putting up with bad things. Tolerance, at least to me means giving what I wish to receive from others. There are plenty of things that I will certainly not tolerate in my friends: misogyny, racist remarks, and things like that, but I respect their right to hold those ideas.

Friends aren't going to agree on everything, nor should they be expected to. You surely don't want her to expect that you find the light of Christianity, so why do you expect that she change?

She, as well as your wife, should be able to have disagreements about many things without it destroying the relationship. I think you should give this friend a bit more credit. She is a fundy and yet she still maintains a friendship with your wife despite her agnosticism and your atheism. That says a lot. Occassionally people are going to slip up and say stupid, or insensitive things. Address the issue directly with the friend in a respectful way. Tell her that although you respect her right to believe as she wishes that it is disrespectful to assume that the peace and love you (and your wife) feel is somehow false because it hasn't been found in Christianity. Ask her if she could please refrain from making these kind of comments unless she is interested in reciprocity. Don't allow something relatively minor to fester and damage this, or any relationship.

Brighid

Beetle

If it makes you feel any better, this whole situation is probably even more awkward for your wife's friend than it is for your wife and yourself. The fundy now has to deal with the fact that your wife has left her religious beliefs and still seems to be doing great. Also, she has to reconcile the doctrine that your wife is destined to charbroil for eternity with her experience of your wife as a good person and reliable friend. How could god condemn a great person like your wife to hell? The personalization of the "gahndi in hell" (or "Willow Rosenberg in hell" for some of us) dilemma can be a powerful thing.

mike_decock

Agreed. Peace of mind is much greater.

When I believed in things spiritual, I had peace that my spirit was destined for Heaven. My spirit was settled but it was mental turmoil. Once I let go of my fanciful belief in spiritual things, I found incomparable peace of mind.

-Mike...

WWSD

Please define "spirit" and then demonstrate the existence of said "spirit"

Then we can perhaps start comparing the magnitude of each sense of peace.