Stephen Maturin

Gary,

Here's the text of <a href="http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=124_HB_394" target="_blank">Am. Sub. H.B. No. 394</a>, which the governor signed on May 8. The newly-added language is underlined. Although the bill itself doesn't require teachers to make a statement like the one you described, it clearly authorizes school boards to impose such a requirement.

The lip service the new law pays to the Establishment Clause is almost laughable in view of the fact that the obvious intent of the amendment was to squeeze the word "prayer" into the former statute. The most recent <a href="http://lsc.state.oh.us/analyses/anh124.nsf/All%20House%20Bills%20and%20Resolutions/554a" target="_blank">bill analysis</a> stops just short of saying, "We only put the Establishment Clause language in to avoid the effects of Wallace v. Jaffree." As I see it, this proves an EC violation all by itself.

PopeInTheWoods

Yeah, that would kind of fail the Lemon Test, wouldn't it? That's assuming that this particular incarnation of SCOTUS still regards the Lemon Test as a benchmark. What exactly is the secular purpose of this bill?

Andy

GaryP

Thanks, Stephan.

In the Bill Analysis, it says the secular purpose is to meditate! I never considered meditation secular.

And how the heck are kids exempted from a MOS? I guess they would have to go out in the hall and make noise out there.

[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: GaryP ]</p>

trunks2k

I personally have no problem with a moment of silence in schools as long as that's all it's advertised as being. If they say "we're now gonna have a moment of silence so you all can pray to yourselves" is wrong, because it seems as though that time is specifically set apart for praying. We used to have a moment of silence in middle school and it was rather nice. I enjoyed those couple seconds where I didn't have to listen to anybody and things were just quiet for once.

Berenger Sauniere

A moment of silence is just another ritual. Do we need any more rituals? Do parents/families have this ritual as a part of their daily routine? If it's allowed to continue in due time it will become tradition. Why should it be of a concern of the government to orchestrate such a ritual? In most cases where I've seen public officials participate in this ritual they end it by the word Amen. Sounds like prayer to me.

Philosoft

Mildly funny anecdote; I remember a few months ago when the local school board was pushing the MOS measure through, naturally to very little dissent down here in Fundy-land, they did a few interviews with local parents and kids,<a href="http://www.brownsville-revival.org/" target="_blank">Brownsville revival-types</a>, that appeared on the evening news.

At least three that I remember mentioned the MOS by name in their slobbering over its necessity, but the funny thing is they all referred to it as the "moment of prayer." Only one of them subsequently corrected himself.

wildernesse

In high school the people who did our morning television announcements (student gov. officers) started the MOS by saying, "We now have a moment of silence to reflect upon the school day." No mention of prayer or anything. Also, I cannot recall ever knowing anyone in our very small school who did pray during the moment of silence--at least no one who you could tell was praying. Our school was a small rural school in the Bible Belt, so you would have thought that this would be a prime prayer slot. We were always too busy either doing our homework or impatiently waiting for MOS to be over so we could talk more.

I understand that most people want MOS because they want a place for prayer in schools. Even if MOS is not used for prayer--it represents a victory over y'all's evil atheist conspiracy against God and the "American Way". In essence, I think it's just a power play--a pretty harmless one in the end. But still annoying.

Also, the word ritual is not limited to religious activity. Taking attendence is a ritual of sorts, yet schools require it to be done. Can anything we purposely do more than once not be a ritual?

--tiba

Melissa 2

I can remember several moments of silence that our Iowa high school has had: one after a teacher died, another during 9/11, another after a student died.

It's basically a way to sneak prayer into school. Nobody ever said it was specifically for prayer, but everyone I looked at had their hands folded in prayer. If you're the only one looking around while everyone else has their heads bowed and their eyes closed, it looks and feels uncomfortable.

I don't really see the point in MOS's. If someone wants to pray quietly after some tragic accident or whatever has happened, fine. But they don't need a MOS to do that.

seebs

I'm on the opposite side of this one. A MOS is an opportunity to do whatever you want to do, as long as it's quiet. Some people pray. Some people think about hard issues. Some people try to remember what they were going to do for lunch tomorrow.

However, providing the opportunity for people to have a moment to get their thoughts together is a good thing. This is getting very close to the level of "I don't want this forced on me" exhibited when people complain about gays kissing in public. People are allowed; if you take it personally, that's your problem. No one is making you pray.

I agree that, say, having someone pray over the school loudspeaker system would be wrong. However, a moment of silence is a simple guesture of respect, not tied to any belief system, and you shouldn't take it so personally.

seebs

And, if they're freethinkers, not sheep, they'll laugh in your face. (Right after the moment of silence.)