Jayjay

I apologise for resorting to such colorful language and thus misrepresenting my point. Replace "groveling" with "respecting and obeying" and you still have the same fundamental issue: if X exists, that's not a sufficient reason to respect X or do what X says. Moral issues are affected by existence of gods, but not dictated by them.

Yes, some people would go to hell even if they did have 100% proof that it's real. Some people will always make misjudgments, but generally the more information a person has, the more likely it is that he will not make stupid decisions. God's policy of hiding and not making the consequences of one's actions known makes no sense for someone who's supposed to be benevolent and loving.
Naturally, if he did reveal himself and the supernatural rules he enforces, that would itself be a relief (assuming that the scenario is not such that God's existence would have always been obvious, in which case practically nobody would give second thought to atheism) and make the deity in question more sensible and trustworthy. But your hypothetical question dealt with the situation that christian God turns out to be true, and such openness does not seem to be in His nature.

Nice how you lump "rebellious" and "depraved" together. I guess those germans who opposed the nazi party during WW2 were also depraved in their rebellion?

Anyway I'll let the depraved, rebellious spawns of the devil speak for themselves.

HelenM

DMB

Radorth: I have noticed that although you quoted from my post, you made no reply. Why am I not surprised?

BadBadBad

That's what you hear, that's not what we say. We say we have no beliefs in any god. We say that your god is a logical contradiction in terms and therefore can't exist any more than spherical cubes. We say that the god portrayed in the bible is beyond the bounds of common sense.


"He" didn't come down and do anything. By quoting from the bible, we demonstrated that God is a logical contradiction and therefore can not exist. We provided a more simple explanation for the stories in the bible and the history of christianity. It's all based upon the myths, fables, forgeries, lies, and ignorance.

You're assured that the ridiculous concept of god is not real. The fact that the Bible presents these ridiculous stories in contradiction to the terms of omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence, presented elsewhere demonstrates the logical contradiction. Anyone who reads the stories in the OT without the absolute conviction that God does exist would easily see the contradiction and the moral depravity of the stories.


The Bible tells us a lot of shit about God that if it were true, sure, I'd fear God. Fortunately none of it is.

Here's a silly challenge for you instead. What would it take for you to believe in God? The Bible tells us that most conversations with this so called god involve a call to genocide. OK Radorth, here he is. "Go my child, and get flight training. Hijack a plane and crash it into a building. Choose a plane with lots of gas. Choose a building with lots of people. Kill the Muslim infidels! Don't worry if you don't think you have it in you. With me by your side, you'll do just fine."

If God showed up in the burning bush, would you believe in God enough to do it? Would you think this vision was God, Satan, or a hallucination, and how could you tell which?



Not. I don't think fear of myths, fables, and non-existent monsters like God is a good thing.

God doesn't have methods, inconsistencies, etc. God doesn't exist. I don't have a benevolent designer God. You do. So far all I’ve seen is rather inconsistent, short-sighted avoidance of complex issues, or suggestions which virtually eliminate common sense.

winstonjen

Radorth:

Actually, it was the god in the bible who MANIPULATED the pharoah into not giving in "I will harden the Pharoah's heart", just so the god in question could show off.

MrDarwin

Don't hold your breath. I've asked variations on this question (usually a simple, "what if God told you to kill your own child?") of numerous Christians and have yet to get an answer.

winstonjen

I've asked the question too, to fundamentalist fools. They specialise at question dodging. Here's a response I got when I asked them if they would rape their daughter if the church told them to:

Oh my. :boohoo:

Radorth

That's all you did. I specifically asked if God manifested himself to you and his nature was substantially as the Bible says, would you fear and obey him or not? You never really answered clearly, but chose to avoid the issue with the usual blah blah blah, you're deluded and we don't have to deal with it because God doesn't exist.

If I knew God as Abraham apparently did, and if I was sure it was God, yes I would do anything he asked which did not violate a clear commandment. OTOH, he would not ask me to do something which was against my own conscience, such as flying a plane into a building full of innocent people. That I would not do, period, but such "disobedience" would be in good conscience and so this is a poor example. You are just baiting me and avoiding the issues I raised anyway. In the case of Abraham and Isaac, God never meant harm to Isaac, so this is a poor example to use as well.

Most of my questions remain unanswered.

Rad

winstonjen

How do you know that he wouldn't ask you to do something against your own conscience? Because he knows your conscience and knows you won't do it anyway? Is your 'conscience' more powerful than your god? Is your conscience dictated by your deity? What if the Biblican god came down and threatened to kill you and your family if you didn't massacre a race he disliked?

winstonjen

According to your own rules you set in the "Who asked Jesus to die for me" topic, your questions HAVE been answered, you just don't like them. Is that because you have no reasonable responses to them?