Jack the Bodiless

By the same argument: if people truly believed that the Repuplicans were the best political party, they wouldn't get involved in politics.

We're up against a rival political party with a historical track record of burning us at the stake. We wish to ensure that they never have that power again.

HelenM

This is such an odd argument.

Christians spend time telling people God exists because they believe He does.

Why wouldn't atheists spend time telling people God doesn't exist because they believe that?

What's the difference? Both groups are trying to help others see 'the truth' - as they understand it.

It's not only an odd argument, it's inherently disrepectful to assume that someone doesn't believe what they say they believe.

How would you like it if people read what you said and then responded "Obviously he doesn't really believe that". It would be annoying, wouldn't it? So why are you doing it to other people? "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" Don't you believe that applies to you?

love
Helen

Wyrdsmyth

Unless, of course, they don't like the idea of people flying passenger jets into skyscrapers. Then, yeah, they might argue against the existence of superstitious nonsense that can be used to manipulate people into becoming walking bombs.

not a theist

It's called debunking.

Does James Randi secretly believe in dowsing, mediumship, and faith-healing just because he talks about them all?

Pomp

Vorkosigan,

Lewis was blown away on both threads.

Two votes for "Lewis was blown away on both threads."

St. Robert

Atheists believe in at least one god, if they believe in themselves. Atheists actually appoint themselves to be the ruler and judge of their own lives. Anyone who claims to be an atheist is a little god. They worship themselves and their opinions. They don't oppose the existence of God, if they rely on themselves to be the moral authority. Atheists are actually antitheist, because they oppose God and anyone who believes in God.

HelenM

Theists often do all these things too. They just aren't as honest about it as atheists, who are more ready to admit that they value their own opinions, believe in themselves and take responsibility for their own lives.

No-one has browbeaten them out of it...or rather, they've not let anyone browbeat them out of it.

love
Helen

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p>

Gurdur

ugh.
Do you believe in yourself ?

I guess that makes Martin Luther with his sole fide an atheist.

Oh, BTW, I'm an atheist, and I regularly check myself and my opinions against my friends, constructive critics and the facts.

Nonsense. I am a big <a href="http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~makino/wombat.htm" target="_blank">wombat</a>, not a tinpot little god.

Naw, but it would be indiscreet to mention the things I "worship" here.
Just call me Mr. Wombat.

You know this sentence makes no sense at all - especially when combined with your next sentence, right ?
Oh twaddle and codswallop. Some of my friends are religious of various stripes, and we get along fine.

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: Gurdur ]</p>

Vorkosigan

Incorrect. First, I worship my wife and her opinions. Second, there are many kinds of atheists, Buddhists, skeptics, pantheists, Confucians.....and they do not all take the point of view you claim they do.

Vorkosigan

not a theist

You do realize that you've shifted ground in your argument here don't you. Previously you claimed that because we talk about God so much, we must believe in him. Now you say that we must believe in him because: I have made no such appointment nor do I think of things in such legalistic categories. My paradigm is not congruent with yours here.
Please define "god" and "worship". I suspect you are using these terms in a non-standard manner. As Gurdur pointed out, this is inconsistent with your next statement.
Taken with your previous sentence this would mean that I oppose myself.
In fact, I do not oppose the fact that people believe in God. I probably do oppose the belief in your God-concept.

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: not a theist ]</p>