Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jat · 04-17-2003, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Henry-Finland
I full stand behind the statements that Koyaanisqatsi made.
Just want to point out that Russia has big natural resources and a vast market. EU and Russia, if the nationalists inside Russia, will not win in let's say 10 years, will be more and more close.
In every question.
If Japan and other counties in the "east-end" of Russia are as fond of the natural resorces and the market + the Chinan market, there will be a huge business and whatever, without any seas between (except for Japan).

Naturally China is an open card, but it is relatively more stabil than USA, whose policy changes 20 degrees to 180 degrees, every time that there is a new president. Or common people feel it so.

You may object to my points, but take even only half of them, and then read again what Koyaanisqatsi wrote and I think You have a picture where we will be in 10 -15 years.

If Bush is elected a second time, take my pessimism, (I am fucking afraid of a coalition that I described above), and add some 200 percent and half the time-line.

Yes, and back to this thread. For EU it will take some 10 - 15 years to stabilize the "new EU", so that the income in different countries will be within a maximum difference of 20 - 30% per capita, between the countries. For the same work etc.

Henry

Russia has always been a very rich country in resources. It is just that you haven't been able to manage to well to your advantage. Lenin was a very incompetant economist.

seanie · 04-17-2003, 07:51 AM

The EU is conciously trying to develop into a major economic block. They're trying to develop into an economic engine for the world economy. That is inherently going to invole rivalry and disputes with the US.

And bear in mind that whilst everyone is keen on free trade when it comes to exports they tend to be considerably less keen when it comes to imports.

The problem for Canada joining the EU is that it would damage its trade with the US. You can't be in Nafta and the EU. It's one or t'other. These are rival economic blocks. Neither is gonna let you have a foot in both camps.

So in joining the EU Canada would get a better deal on its 2% of exports to Europe and a worse deal on it 85% of exports to the US.

That doesn't sound like a great deal to me.

Jat · 04-17-2003, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ex-idaho
Thanks everyone for your input and insight.

Canada I would think would be a prime candidate for EU membership. Specifically because 80% of their trade is with the US. Whether the EU wishes to compete with the US for the Canadian resources of timber and various ores or they wish to have a partner with stronger ties to the US economically it seems they would be a nice fit.

Of course Canada would benefit by having increased buying power vs the US dollar. The Candian dollar currently trades at about .70 US. If they were to be offered membership into the EU and the Euro remained at or near its current value that would be a boon for the Candian economy.

Of course everytime the EU expands we get closer to fulfilling biblical prophecy

Wasn't that for only 10 nations to be part of it as mentioned in the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation?

Jat · 04-17-2003, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seanie
We've already got trees.

As compared to Canada you only have shrubs.

Optional · 04-17-2003, 07:53 AM

Koyaanisqatsi, I gotta say this... As I peruse these boards, I just skim down posts, getting main ideas, rarely looking at authors. Every once in a while, tho, I find myself completely agreeing with a particular post, and what's more admiring the post for its style and panache (or however you spell that)... And inevitably, when I scroll back up to see who this paragon of good opinions happens to be, I find the name Koyaanisqatsi.

Thanks.

-me

seanie · 04-17-2003, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
As compared to Canada you only have shrubs.

We don't have the room for anything else.

Jat · 04-17-2003, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seanie
The EU is conciously trying to develop into a major economic block. They're trying to develop into an economic engine for the world economy. That is inherently going to invole rivalry and disputes with the US.

And bear in mind that whilst everyone is keen on free trade when it comes to exports they tend to be considerably less keen when it comes to imports.

The problem for Canada joining the EU is that it would damage its trade with the US. You can't be in Nafta and the EU. It's one or t'other. These are rival economic blocks. Neither is gonna let you have a foot in both camps.

So in joining the EU Canada would get a better deal on its 2% of exports to Europe and a worse deal on it 85% of exports to the US.

That doesn't sound like a great deal to me.

We may do more trade with the USA, but we would make a bigger profit in the EU.

Jat · 04-17-2003, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seanie
We don't have the room for anything else.

We have enough room for everything, and I do mean everything.

seanie · 04-17-2003, 07:58 AM

If you could make a bigger profit from us you'd already be selling to us. The only way you could switch your 85% from the US to the EU would be to undercut those that already supply the EU with those products you can offer.

I'm sorry, and believe me I feel your pain, but I'm afraid you're stuck with the Yanks.

Ut · 04-17-2003, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
One of the funniest things the separatists tried to do to convince Quecbers to vote foe separation was to say that they could keep the Canadian currency and social programs after leaving. That is like getting a divorce and still living in the house, but not having to share in the running of it yet taking everything as if you were.

You're misrepresenting their point about social programs. They do NOT want to remain in the Canadian social programs managed from Ottawa. Instead, the separatists say that, with the taxes that formerly went to Ottawa and now would go to Quebec City as a result of secession, they will provide social programs equivalent to those formerly provided by the federal government.

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04-17-2003, 07:51 AM	#22
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	The EU is conciously trying to develop into a major economic block. They're trying to develop into an economic engine for the world economy. That is inherently going to invole rivalry and disputes with the US. And bear in mind that whilst everyone is keen on free trade when it comes to exports they tend to be considerably less keen when it comes to imports. The problem for Canada joining the EU is that it would damage its trade with the US. You can't be in Nafta and the EU. It's one or t'other. These are rival economic blocks. Neither is gonna let you have a foot in both camps. So in joining the EU Canada would get a better deal on its 2% of exports to Europe and a worse deal on it 85% of exports to the US. That doesn't sound like a great deal to me.

04-17-2003, 07:53 AM	#25
Optional Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 1,049	Koyaanisqatsi, I gotta say this... As I peruse these boards, I just skim down posts, getting main ideas, rarely looking at authors. Every once in a while, tho, I find myself completely agreeing with a particular post, and what's more admiring the post for its style and panache (or however you spell that)... And inevitably, when I scroll back up to see who this paragon of good opinions happens to be, I find the name Koyaanisqatsi. Thanks. -me

04-17-2003, 07:58 AM	#29
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	If you could make a bigger profit from us you'd already be selling to us. The only way you could switch your 85% from the US to the EU would be to undercut those that already supply the EU with those products you can offer. I'm sorry, and believe me I feel your pain, but I'm afraid you're stuck with the Yanks.

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