the_cave

Alright...I apologize for being catty. You've been gracious enough to step back when others have taken offence, and I'll return in kind.

(Though I'm sure I've never seen any sarcasm anywhere else on these boards! (<--more sarcasm )

I also acknowledge that you didn't say there was anything wrong with meditation.

Kenny

The question being addressed in this thread is the question of whether or not the idea of petitionary prayer, within the context of traditional theism, with the expectation that such may very well have causal relevance with respect to certain outcomes in the external world, is coherent. This question, in turn, is a focusing in on a particular issue in the context of a larger debate occurring on these boards as to whether Christian theism (and/or other traditional forms of theism) is rational. To dismiss any arguments for the coherence of the notion of petitionary prayer, as it has been described, on the grounds that any argument making reference to the concept of God is irrational, therefore, begs the question with respect to the context in which the discussion is taking place.

Also, if it is true that any argument which makes reference to the concept of God is irrational (as you seemed to be suggesting), then arguments against the coherence of the idea of petitionary prayer which make reference to the concept of God are also irrational. Furthermore, it is simply ridiculous to argue that when discussing the coherence of some notion, it is necessary to provide some sort of rational or empirical proof that said notion is true. The question of coherence and the question of truth are two distinct questions. We could very well establish that sting theory is coherent, for example, while still having no idea whether or not string theory is true.

Finally, I disagree with the assertion that the theist has some sort of greater burden of proof than the atheist. In fact, I think that both atheism and theism make equally sweeping, equally radical claims about reality. But that, of course, is part of the wider debate which I spoke of and one that I do not have time to get into now. And, as I have pointed out, it is in fact irrelevant with respect to the current issue being discussed.

God Bless,
Kenny