Pyrrho

I don't think that would be called rape if you didn't call it rape. That is, if my wife drinks and wants to have sex with me, and we have sex, no one will think it is rape unless she later on said it was rape (which isn't going to happen).

Basically, if all involved are legally adults, and they all swear that whatever happened was not rape, I don't think anything would be prosecutable as rape, even if it had been rape.

So I think you are concerned over nothing regarding an innocent man being convicted too easily for rape.

And any man who has consensual sex with a woman who he doesn't know won't say it was rape later on is a complete moron. So I have very little sympathy for such men. (Now, if no sex act has occurred, and a man is accused of rape, that is another matter entirely.)

Vandrare

thats quite a blanket statement there! what if the woman is actually trying to blackmail the man, or perhaps is really pissed off at him and wanting to ruin his career. she's not about to be nasty (as a warning) before trapping him.

Amen-Moses

I once was in the middle of a sexual encounter when she shouted "No" extremely loudly and I stopped immediately.

She berated me severely for stopping and dumped me the next day, apparently I had stopped just as she was having her first vaginal orgasm.

How the fuck was I supposed to know?

Amen-Moses

Daleth

Pyrrho, sorry, maybe I was unclear. I wasn't talking about inappropriate convictions. I was talking about rape statistics that show 1 in X women will be raped some time in her life. They are misleading because of the wide interpretation of rape and the way the questions may be worded. Sometimes they say 1 in 10 and sometimes they say 1 in 5, while others show a smaller risk. Some of them count attempted rape while others do not. (If I were interviewed by the researchers, my little non-event with the guy who assumed consent would count as an attempted rape in the stats.) All statistics are engineered in some way. These are (correctly) not based just on reported rapes, but on studies, and I'm sure the questions are not simply "Have you ever been raped" and "Has rape ever been attempted against you." Given the legal definition that sex with a drunk woman is rape, some of these studies may go so far as to ask whether you've ever had sex with a man while you were drunk, and if you have, add you to the rape stats. That's a really extreme example, and I doubt most if any go that far, but they could. They do ask different questions based on how wide their definition of rape is, which explains the gaps in the numbers. All of them include childhood abuse, so none of them give me an accurate idea of what the risk is to me today. (At least none that I've seen.)

One of the links given here for stats said 1 in 3 women, but rather than just including rape it also included coerced into consenting to sex (which may sometimes be rape, depending on what coerced means), sexual assault, and any other form of abuse. Given a definition that broad, I don't know how they managed to come up with any number short of 100% of women.

ETA: On the subject of innocent men being convicted, I agree, I don't see any chance of that whatsoever if the woman's not even making the accusation. Can't see how that might happen.

Daleth

Poor Moses. Ya done the right thing. That doesn't make the being dumped seem much nicer, though, does it?

Amen-Moses

I'll never understand women, they really are from Venus.

Amen-Moses

Daleth

Don't try to understand women. Just try to understand ONE woman. (At least one at a time.) That's good enough.

Amen-Moses

Ahh, but finding that one woman, that's the trick I haven't mastered.

Amen-Moses

Treacle Worshipper

Originally posted by Bree
Perhaps your country has different statistics on rape - but in this country one women in five is a victim. That's a lot of women. To me, that kind of statistic justifies the fears that many women have.

Yowser! That's an horrendous statistic, and, even after having read Daleth's comments on massaged stats, it still makes me freak out. I'd be scared if I was living with that kind of info.

The British crime stats for last year came out the other week and IIRC 10,000 women reported rapes last year. I'm not sure what that works out as a percentage, but it's not one-in-five. (Presumably 1:5 is over a lifetime rather than a year? Please tell me 20% of US women don't get raped every year.)

Fear is necessary. How many times have I heard a woman say "if I had just trusted my gut, I would have never been attacked?" When you stop thinking that there is real danger out there, that's when you're in the worst trouble.

I agree. But I prefer to be alert rather than working myself up to a pitch where I'm scared out of my wits (which has happened on occasion; I'd've been useless if someone had attacked me). If I'm going somewhere on my own late at night I will be purposely more alert than if I'm going through the centre of town in the middle of the day with lots of people about. I prefer awareness and self-protection to living in fear.

Edited to add: I wonder why men are the usual people saying that rape is a nearly non-existant crime (I've asked this question on three message boards so far and this seems to be a trend). Maybe it's because they aren't usually targets?

I don't know if this was specifically directed at me, but to clarify: I'm female.
I think one of the reasons why I'll be damned before I spend my life in fear is because I spent a year at junior (uh, elementary) school being physically assaulted (not sexually) by a lad every day. When you're under 10 it's called bullying & no-one does much about it, but I was in fear every day I went to school, and I don't want that sort of fear to control my adult life.

Intended in a spirit of peace & not confrontation,
TW

[Edited because I am an anal retentive grammar freak and even tho' I know it's perfectly acceptable to say "a horrendous statistic", I couldn't cope after reading it 3 times and was forced to change it to "an"]

Treacle Worshipper

[almost completely off-topic post]
Originally posted by Jackalope
I dunno about you, but I'm developing enormous arms from pushing myself around. Or, as my doctor put it, "Awesome extensors."

Oh yes. I now have shirts I can't get into because my arms are too big. They'd fit me otherwise. Ho hum.

You're actually in a great position to "grab, twist and pull" if you ever need to.



Plus, I keep my cane attached to my chair with clips (they're actually broom clips meant for janitorial closets). I can use that to wail on anyone who grabs me.

I had thought that too.
Where did you get your clips from? I have looked everywhere for something like that - got parents to look too - and can't find anything anywhere. I have to tuck my stick under my arm, which is do-able but not great.

In general, people here in California will ask if you need help before they try and push you, so I haven't had much problem with someone just grabbing the back of my wheelchair and giving me a shove.

Sad as I am to say it, it is usually the older generation (people 60+) who were brought up to 'help' 'the unfortunate' - which means "do what they think best". Most of them are also about 1/3 of my current weight and have massive difficulties pushing me anywhere anyway. When people middle aged and younger think I need help, they do tend to ask first - but they seem to be less inclined to bother with me; they were all brought up to be 'polite' to 'the unfortunate', which in a lot of cases means not seeing them

And especially in Berkeley, there are an inordinately large number of very cranky crips who will run over toes and even pin someone to the wall with their wheelchair if messed with.

The other week I was coming down a hill (quite slowly) & said "excuse me" to this bloke who was in my way, who turned round and said "Well, you could've stopped." I ignored him, but I think I need to get a bit more - assertive, shall we say?

I actually feel less vulnerable in the wheelchair than I did staggering along with my cane or walker, because I'm not as easy to knock down when I'm in the chair. And I can move a lot faster (I've been practicing wheelies and spin turns in the new chair). If you haven't had the center of gravity in your chair adjusted for your weight, you may be less agile than you could be.

Yes, I'm certainly not falling all over the place any more. Now the police know I not paralytic drunk in the middle of the afternoon I haven't got as far as wheelies yet; I think I need to have someone around when I practise that in case I go over backwards. I don't think the chair I've got can be adjusted in any sort of way - it's a bog-standard NHS one-size-fits-all chair. It does for now, but if things continue to get worse, I'll have to go and be assertive at someone.

(Oh, and join the wheelchair junkie message board, please.

Will do. Do you post as Jackalope there too?

There are a total of three atheists there, and the fundies of various stripes are making me crazy. Especially the catholic who thinks that saying the rosary every day is what made his relapsing-remitting MS improve.)

Deary deary me. At least I can play the "eccentric Brit" card if they decide I need converting.

TW

[/almost completely off topic post]