Freethought & Rationalism Archive

KnightWhoSaysNi · 05-28-2003, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by steadele
It seems to me as if everyone feels like they are under attack or something here. While I have seen Socrates make comments that were unnecessarily inflammatory, I have also seen that from some of you guys as well. So I think that both sides are to blame here.

These issues cause some people to have strong emotional reactions, which then are expressed as insults or snide remarks. While I think that passion for ones position is a positive thing, I think being emotional about ones position is a negative thing. I say that everyone on both sides just needs to relax a bit and not take things personally (even comments which are personal).

Yo Steadele! Good to see you at my regular stomping grounds.

As far as ad homs go and stuff, I usually just ignore them. I don't feel I need to stoop to Soc's level and return fire. I don't take any of his vitriole personally. I'm not there to launch any holy war how Soc seems to think about the evolution/creation controversy. The creation/evolution debate is simply just an intellectual hobby of mine and nothing to get emotional about.

Warcraft3 · 05-28-2003, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Duvenoy
Hi steadele! Delighted to see ya here! I've enjoyed your posts at Tweb.

I hope you find us as interesting.

doov

Hey there!!! Well I am glad you enjoyed my posts (I often feel I have little to contribute so I am glad to hear that you liked my posts).

I am sure I will find you guys here at infidels very interesting indeed. At least I kind of know some of you already, so it doesnt make me feel so out of place. I am going to try to post both here and at TWEB. So far this place seems pretty good.

Russ

Duvenoy · 05-28-2003, 10:34 AM

Umm. Socrates. What to be said about Socrates? I've popped his chops a couple of times and gotten away with it, but I've mostly restrained myself.

That he is abusive, there is no doubt. The part that pisses me off is that he uses abuse as a red herring to take the attention away from the questions he cannot answer.

That he's protected, there can be no doubt. Why is this?

Dr. Jonathan Sarfati (look how well I restrained myself!) is a big gun in AiG. I think that Tweb might be afraid of losing him. And so, they coddle him.

After all, it is a theist forum, and Sarfati (still hangin' in) adds a certain amount prestige among those who are sure AiG is the be-all, end-all of science -- I don't see it warrented, but it must be there, somewhere.

This only proves that Tweb is all human, too.

I fear that I might one day, in a moment of ignorance-hating, I'll cut loose on Soc, and then be resinged to II and the Skeptic Friends forever. Even though I'd only be giving fair return.

I'd sort'a miss hanging at Tweb.

Anyhow, Welcome!

doov

Calzaer · 05-28-2003, 11:57 AM

I might wanna take a look around over there. Do they specify what brand of theist can post in Cosmogony? Wiccans are theists...

Jimmy Higgins · 05-28-2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by steadele
Jimmy:
You two should agree to either keep all rhetoric out of the discussion, or agree to not personally offend each other.

That won't happen because Socrates relies heavily on abuse when it comes to not being able to answer issues. He relies on arguments of other people's authority and outright slander in many cases when dealing with me on geology issues. It isn't as much as he is rude verbally, but in a professional manner he is inept and disrespectful.

Kevbo · 05-28-2003, 12:14 PM

I have to agree with Jimmy and others. Socrates, when addressing someone who doesn't agree with him, always resorts to some sort of insult, childish animated icon, or personal attack. I can't remember one time when he's actually presented anything without offensive rhetoric. He's the only person on that board who doesn't even attempt to reasonably disagree without throwing in a low blow.

Passant · 05-28-2003, 02:58 PM

Hello everyone!
I,m a long time lurker, first time poster. I have followed both forums, and have just started posting at Tweb. While I do believe the moderation is unfair, it is MUCH fairer than on most Christian boards. I was thinking, maybe instead of replying to insults with insults, or ignoring insults, maybe you could develop a system to seperate insults from substance. Like grouping all insults, ad homs, etc. into a group on your reply, and then answering any real rebuttal. I would also try to make sure to support any Christians that support evolution, at least in matters of science. I would like to make some comments on Sarfati's paper on the 2nd law of thermodynamics, but I will have to find the time to get involved. I'm sure Socrates would want to jump on that.

It's nice to finally talk to you guy's, this is the best secular site I've found (probably to good, Fundies never stay around long!)

Valentine Pontifex · 05-28-2003, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RufusAtticus
I used to not report stuff and handle Socrates's vitrolic comments in the threads, but his repeated use of immflamatory and slanderous rhetoric against me and my wife, caused me to put him on my "trouble-maker" list. Thus I don't hesitate to report his shit when I see it. If an atheist or non-creationist treated me and my wife the way Socrates has, then they'd be on my "trouble-maker" list too.

He said things about your wife? Can you document that, preferably a copy and paste to this forum so if TW disappears a record of Sarfati's behavior will remain.

Valentine Pontifex · 05-28-2003, 05:29 PM

Folks I have a suggestion for those who still with to fight the battle at TW.

FACT: Sarfati appears to have an anger management problem and a potty mouth^h^h^h^h^hkeyboard.

PREMISE: This can be used against him.

I propose that people be super nice to him after a fashion. Do not in any way respond in kind. For one thing responding in kind simply makes you look like one of the pigs. Letting him rant this way will only make him look bad. And frankly what he says can and should be used against him in the future. (And we really should not engage in name calling behind his back since that only make us look bad and simple detracts us from making a more effective case against him.)

Instead maybe be gracious to the extreme. Maybe even the occasional "thank you for your kind words", etc. People might think it is funny and that alone could hurt is reputation. The moderators will have a hard time editing it without outright admitting that Sarfati really did do something wrong. Not to mention that it might give our side some great ammo that could be posted. Who is the best writer around here? These events might be worth documenting in an article for the Kiosk.

Best of all, the "kindness" might make Sarfati really loose his temper and say something really stupid--even more stupid then he has already said.

Duvenoy · 05-28-2003, 05:34 PM

Hell, VP, I gave him a pearl. If he gets extra nasty, I'll give him another.

doov

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05-28-2003, 10:34 AM	#283
Duvenoy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Just another hick from the sticks. Posts: 1,108	Umm. Socrates. What to be said about Socrates? I've popped his chops a couple of times and gotten away with it, but I've mostly restrained myself. That he is abusive, there is no doubt. The part that pisses me off is that he uses abuse as a red herring to take the attention away from the questions he cannot answer. That he's protected, there can be no doubt. Why is this? Dr. Jonathan Sarfati (look how well I restrained myself!) is a big gun in AiG. I think that Tweb might be afraid of losing him. And so, they coddle him. After all, it is a theist forum, and Sarfati (still hangin' in) adds a certain amount prestige among those who are sure AiG is the be-all, end-all of science -- I don't see it warrented, but it must be there, somewhere. This only proves that Tweb is all human, too. I fear that I might one day, in a moment of ignorance-hating, I'll cut loose on Soc, and then be resinged to II and the Skeptic Friends forever. Even though I'd only be giving fair return. I'd sort'a miss hanging at Tweb. Anyhow, Welcome! doov

05-28-2003, 11:57 AM	#284
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	I might wanna take a look around over there. Do they specify what brand of theist can post in Cosmogony? Wiccans are theists...

05-28-2003, 12:14 PM	#286
Kevbo Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NY Posts: 212	I have to agree with Jimmy and others. Socrates, when addressing someone who doesn't agree with him, always resorts to some sort of insult, childish animated icon, or personal attack. I can't remember one time when he's actually presented anything without offensive rhetoric. He's the only person on that board who doesn't even attempt to reasonably disagree without throwing in a low blow.

05-28-2003, 02:58 PM	#287
Passant Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: 7th circle of hell Posts: 12	Hello everyone! I,m a long time lurker, first time poster. I have followed both forums, and have just started posting at Tweb. While I do believe the moderation is unfair, it is MUCH fairer than on most Christian boards. I was thinking, maybe instead of replying to insults with insults, or ignoring insults, maybe you could develop a system to seperate insults from substance. Like grouping all insults, ad homs, etc. into a group on your reply, and then answering any real rebuttal. I would also try to make sure to support any Christians that support evolution, at least in matters of science. I would like to make some comments on Sarfati's paper on the 2nd law of thermodynamics, but I will have to find the time to get involved. I'm sure Socrates would want to jump on that. It's nice to finally talk to you guy's, this is the best secular site I've found (probably to good, Fundies never stay around long!)

05-28-2003, 05:29 PM	#289
Valentine Pontifex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 3,092	Folks I have a suggestion for those who still with to fight the battle at TW. FACT: Sarfati appears to have an anger management problem and a potty mouth^h^h^h^h^hkeyboard. PREMISE: This can be used against him. I propose that people be super nice to him after a fashion. Do not in any way respond in kind. For one thing responding in kind simply makes you look like one of the pigs. Letting him rant this way will only make him look bad. And frankly what he says can and should be used against him in the future. (And we really should not engage in name calling behind his back since that only make us look bad and simple detracts us from making a more effective case against him.) Instead maybe be gracious to the extreme. Maybe even the occasional "thank you for your kind words", etc. People might think it is funny and that alone could hurt is reputation. The moderators will have a hard time editing it without outright admitting that Sarfati really did do something wrong. Not to mention that it might give our side some great ammo that could be posted. Who is the best writer around here? These events might be worth documenting in an article for the Kiosk. Best of all, the "kindness" might make Sarfati really loose his temper and say something really stupid--even more stupid then he has already said.

05-28-2003, 05:34 PM	#290
Duvenoy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Just another hick from the sticks. Posts: 1,108	Hell, VP, I gave him a pearl. If he gets extra nasty, I'll give him another. doov

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