Freethought & Rationalism Archive

EasternGate · 08-03-2003, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayne Delia
Two points:

First, the places where God identifies Himself as "Jealous" say nothing at all about God being jealous of man worshipping creation. Exodus 34:14 reads "Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God," and Exodus 20:5 says "I the Lord thy God am a jealous God" in reference to "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Nothing at all about God being jealous of man worshipping creation - nothing at all. What version of the Bible are you using, assuming the Catholic Church actually allows you to read the Bible on your own without their, uh, "supervision."

Second, I was actually channel surfing quite a few years ago, flipping through the channels looking for ESPN when I passed Trinity Broadcasting Network, showing a "Praise the Lord" show with Paul and Jan Crouch, whose guest briefly mentioned "The problem is that they worship the creation, while I worship the Creator." Turns out the guest was James Watt, the former Secretary of the Interior under Ronald Reagan, and he was responding to a question about the many critics of his strip-mining policies. If you worship God, he reasoned, you can do whatever you damn well please to the environment.

It is because of His goodness that we have the things we can enjoy and use for life.

That's a complete non-sequitur. You were asked about God's jealousy, not God's goodness.

WMD

I answered your question but like I said, the reason unbelievers can't understand God's word is because they have not the Spirit in order to understand God's word.
I said as In Romans 1, they worship the creation instead of the Creator who create all things.
As for Jealous of other gods, God tells us and we know there are NO OTHER GODS besides Jehovah. So the Lord is jealous because men worship gods they create in their hearts and minds. These gods, the lord says, cannot hear, speak nor see because they are carved idols made from things God created, men just put names on these deities but they are worthless idols made of wood, metal, water, stone, stars, angels etc. all things God created.

Cross Examiner · 08-03-2003, 08:34 PM

EasternGate and Wayne,

rather than reinvent the wheel regarding the "jealousy" of God, you may pick up here if you wish.

Regards,
BGic

ex-xian · 08-03-2003, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EasternGate
I have deleted EasternGate's entire post because it is specifically requested on the site he took it from:

If you can show that you have the required permission from the owners (or indeed are the writer of the article) I will re-post the material. I have made a copy of the deleted text. EasternGate, if you have a problem with this moderating decision, please take your complaint to the Bugs, etc forum.

Martin J Burn (Moderator)

I wish that he would get that guy's permission. I've seen any apologists even address, much less attempt try solve, this problem.

So go on, EasternGate, get his permission, or invite him here. Or just post a link.

ex-xian · 08-03-2003, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EasternGate
I have deleted EasternGate's entire post because it is specifically stated on the site he took it from:

If you can show that you have the required permission from the owners (or indeed are the writer of the article) I will re-post the material. I have made a copy of the deleted text. EasternGate, if you have a problem with this moderating decision, please take your complaint to the Bugs, etc forum.

Martin J Burn (Moderator)

Could he just post links?

Doctor X · 08-03-2003, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Jesus is talking about scripture refering to the rock that followed Israel and gave them water in the desert.

No one seems at all bothered by a mobile rock?

BWA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

--J.D.

excreationist · 08-03-2003, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EasternGate
As Talking about John 7:38, Jesus is talking about scripture refering to the rock that followed Israel and gave them water in the desert.

Where in scripture does it talk about a rock that *followed* Israel? I can only find verses about a cloud or fire leading the way...
e.g.
Exodus 13:21 - "By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night."

mongrel · 08-03-2003, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EasternGate
God created man and He is jealous that man worships creation (all things that man lives for to satify himself) instead of the Creator who made them. It is because of His goodness that we have the things we can enjoy and use for life.

Two questions:

Isn't jealousy considered a weakness, or fault? It certainly seems to be amongst us mere mortals...

Why does your mythical god need people to worship it- egomania, perhaps?

excreationist · 08-03-2003, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mongrel
....Why does your mythical god need people to worship it- egomania, perhaps?

God wants more than mere worship - he wants complete dedication.

e.g.
Deuteronomy 6:5 - "Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength."

Deuteronomy 10:12b - "....love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,"

Deuteronomy 11:13b - "love the LORD your God and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul"

Joshua 22:5b - "serve him with all your heart and all your soul."

Mark 12:30 - "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."

Also Matthew 22:37, Luke 10:27, etc.

RED DAVE · 08-04-2003, 03:14 AM

If there is no salvation except through JC, and Jews don't recognize JC as the Messiah, does that mean that my great-grandmother, who died in the gas chambers at Auschwitz, went to hell?

Please enlighten me oh minister of a just god.

RED DAVE

Doctor X · 08-04-2003, 03:23 AM

Indeed . . . and to put the "boot in further" did the Christian Nazis who ran such camps go to heaven?

--J.D.

08-03-2003, 08:34 PM	#52
Cross Examiner Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 1,881	deja vu EasternGate and Wayne, rather than reinvent the wheel regarding the "jealousy" of God, you may pick up here if you wish. Regards, BGic

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08-04-2003, 03:14 AM	#59
RED DAVE Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 10,532	If there is no salvation except through JC, and Jews don't recognize JC as the Messiah, does that mean that my great-grandmother, who died in the gas chambers at Auschwitz, went to hell? Please enlighten me oh minister of a just god. RED DAVE

08-04-2003, 03:23 AM	#60
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Indeed . . . and to put the "boot in further" did the Christian Nazis who ran such camps go to heaven? --J.D.

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