Freethought & Rationalism Archive

brighid · 07-26-2002, 11:55 AM

Bonduca,

Thank you so kindly, but how is that you manage to find a moment to praise any other human being when your life is so wretched and your so filled with hate an animosity?

B

Eudaimonist · 07-26-2002, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid:
Thank you so kindly, but how is that you manage to find a moment to praise any other human being when your life is so wretched and your so filled with hate an animosity?

Yeah, Bonduca! If you're not careful, you'll give atheists a good name!

Albion · 07-26-2002, 12:22 PM

Yes, several paragraphs of intelligent reasoning, and not a hateful word to be found. You'll be expelled from the Atheist Church if you carry on giving the religion such a bad name.

Beheaded_Goat · 07-26-2002, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Mathews:
Hello Beheaded_Goat,

David: If you search long enough you will certainly find ignorant hateful bigots in all religions, political parties, philosophies and even atheism.

Love,

David Mathews

Did you even try, Davey? I should think that you could find one and post it here for us to see. I mean, if you searched long enough...

The reason that you will not find atheistic hate sites is that there is no reason for the atheist to hate unreasonably. Logic highly governs our morality. It would not make sense for a person who disbelieves in Orcs to create an anti-semitic site. There would be no reason. Such is the case with atheists.

NOGO · 07-26-2002, 05:19 PM

Quote:

David: If you search long enough you will certainly find ignorant hateful bigots in all religions, political parties, philosophies and even atheism.

There you go again David mixing things that cannot be mix in the context.

Religions and political parties are both well defined human organizations.

Philosophies and atheism are not organizations.
People can get together under the banner of a philosophy but the philosophy is not the organization.

Why does this matter you will ask?

It goes like this.
Anybody can claim to be an atheist. There are no entry exams, no endoctrication, no minimum requirements.
For this reason what he does cannot in anyway bring prejudice to other atheists.

When a politian of party X accepts bribes, for example, the whole party is tarnished.
Note that there need not be an established link between accepting bribes and belonging to party X for this to take place.

David Mathews · 07-26-2002, 06:40 PM

Hello brighid,

Quote:

This is true to an extent. We do not have any mythical version of a deity commanding us to love our enemies, turn to other cheek or to view homosexuals, adulterers and feminists as abominations onto that mythical God, in your case Yahweh and Christ. Nor do atheists, whose only commonality is a lack of belief in all Gods (just one or three more then your own view) and as you have been told at least a dozen times atheism is ONLY a lack of belief. Atheism is not a moral code, but there are plenty of different moral codes an atheist can choose from. The only difference is we do not justify our actions or in actions upon the permission or prohibition of a God. Atheists are not by definition, or default bigoted, ignorant, hateful, angry or desperate. There are certainly those amongst our millions that quite possibly display those traits, just as you say if you look hard enough you will find those types of people amongst any group. So, what is your point? You have found a few atheists in your time that display these characteristics and you no doubt know of at least as many Christians who display these characteristics. But do you cast aspirations against the whole of Christendom because of these people as you have against the whole atheist community? And again, please provide some actual examples of these actions you are so fond of attributing to atheists in general. We have been kind enough to provide you with but a few Christian examples, surely you could dig up at least a dozen considering the plethora of information on this site.

I also find it disturbing that any moral system would attempt to obligate me to love someone who has not earned my respect or is deserving of my love. Each human being deserves a basic respect because they are human, with certain rights I feel should be unalienable. But very few have earned something as precious as my love, even though they will have my respect, compassion and empathy. Furthermore I won�t allow my self-respect to be belittled by hating any person. Hate has little or no benefit for me and it only serves to bind me to the person who has harmed me and my hate willingly gives them power over me. I may have varying degrees of dislike and disgust for the actions of many human beings, but I will not give over my self-respect to those who wish to develop my hatred for their advantage.

I would say that because atheists have no belief in a supernatural reward or eternal punishment system for their deeds that this makes their actions more moral then the theist who does things to gain favor in the eyes of their God or to avoid ever lasting punishment. I do what is right because it is right, not because I believe I am being watched and I will be rewarded or punished. I try not to do things to others that I don�t wish to be done to me. I do my best to respect others, but I will be damned if I will be stifled, ridiculed or abused by anyone. I am not a doormat and if you don�t wish to be treated in a manner that will ruffle your feathers please don�t piss on my parade and have the audacity to tell me it�s raining.

David you have reaped what you have sown here at II. You shouldn�t be at all surprised. I feel confident that if you went to another theist board and started making accusations such as �Catholics are hateful, angry, bigoted people�� (just as you have made here) that you wouldn�t garner a loving response either. Stop, and take a long hard look in the mirror and when you have gotten your own house in order then you may come back to OUR house and address the errors you see.

We are not hypocrites when we expect Christians to act like Christians, especially as they are commanded by their God to love their neighbor, praise their enemies and act humbly, kindly and with compassion ESPECIALLY to those who hate and persecute them. It is the duty of the Christian. So, we certainly DO expect you to act as you are commanded and befitting one who claims THEE superior moral high ground. If you think so lowly of us and then engage in the tactics you say you despise and are attempting to flush out �well who is the hypocrite and who is not possessed of that imaginary high ground?

I am impressed, brighid. I am not used to getting a well-written and reasoned response from an atheist in these discussion boards on the bottom end of the Internet Infidels discussion board.

I do say things at times which I know might (or will) offend others. I do not do so maliciously. When atheists become provoked and act in an unreasonable manner they could learn a little by observing themselves.

I don't imagine that atheists are immune from the sins of bigotry, prejudice, hatred, violence, etc. All groups of humans contain people who commit such sins.

There are Christians who are filled with hate, prejudice and bigotry. After the attack on September 11th there was a lot of anti-Muslims and anti-Arab bigotry in Christian discussion groups and did oppose it every time I encountered it.

I am not here to harm you people. That was never my intention in joining Internet Infidels.

Best Regards,

David Mathews

Bible Humper · 07-26-2002, 08:11 PM

Hello David

Quote:

Perhaps so ... but I consider Helen an atheist in all practical respects, though perhaps she is a Theist and a Christian in some mystical, inexplicable sense comprehensible only to herself.

David, your own brand of "christianity" is so far removed from what most people would mean when they use the word "christian", that Douglas J Bender told you straight out that you are by no means a christian yourself.

Considering how you reject the idea that christianity has a monopoly on religious truth, and have incorporated some of the more profoud ideas from other religions into your own philosophy, I'm amazed that you would deign to tell HelenSL that she is "not christian enough to be a christian".

This apparent display of implied narrow-mindedness seems out of character, David.

Eudaimonist · 07-26-2002, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Mathews:
I am not here to harm you people. That was never my intention in joining Internet Infidels.

But you are here to:

1) manipulate us
2) push our buttons
3) toy with us for your amusement

If that isn't intent to harm, what is? If you don't wish to cause any harm, stop doing those things.

David Mathews · 07-26-2002, 08:26 PM

Hello Eudaimonist,

Quote:

But you are here to:

1) manipulate us
2) push our buttons
3) toy with us for your amusement

David: I am here for all three of these reasons and I am kind and honest enough to tell you directly that I am doing these things.

Love,

David Mathews

Tricia · 07-27-2002, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Mathews:
Hello Eudaimonist,

David: I am here for all three of these reasons and I am kind and honest enough to tell you directly that I am doing these things.

Love,

David Mathews

<img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

~Tricia

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07-26-2002, 11:55 AM	#41
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Bonduca, Thank you so kindly, but how is that you manage to find a moment to praise any other human being when your life is so wretched and your so filled with hate an animosity? B

07-26-2002, 12:22 PM	#43
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Yes, several paragraphs of intelligent reasoning, and not a hateful word to be found. You'll be expelled from the Atheist Church if you carry on giving the religion such a bad name.

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