SharonDee

...and fear, don't forget. I've heard some reports of NDE's that have convinced patients of a fiery afterlife, causing them to fear for their very souls. This fear, in turn, makes them start doing the proselytizing jitterbug to save others from the same fiery fate.

Were I such a person (or others forced to listen to such NDE-inspired tripe), I'd dearly love to hear that it was all a trick of the brain.

crazyfingers

If there was no afterlife belief, there might be fewer religious suicide bombers.

Heathen Dawn

I can't live with the notion that death is final. I simply MUST believe in life after death, otherwise my life is one of fear all the time. Has been so since I was a little child.

Have faith in something, even if it be a lie.

NialScorva

So everyone must stop because you value a likely lie over useful answeres?

Flynn McKerrow

Yeah, me too.

Plebe

Heathen Dawn who believes in Wicca as with others who believe various things about the afterlife has probably stated without realizing it the main reason for believing in mystical things-the fear of the UN-KNOWN. All believers DO NOT KNOW whereas those of us who are skeptics such as myself try our best to "Keep our minds open, but not so open our brains fall out." I have a friend whose mother explained to me and her both about her OBE on the operating table for a hysterectomy and she says it altered her understanding of reality and her place in it in contrast to her religious[in this case Christian Catholic]upbringing. She says she saw a fast review of her life and judged herself on her actions while being in the presence of an all encompassing loving presence and some dead relatives. The presence asked her telepathically if she was ready and internally she says that she knew the answer was no because she had her family to take care of and the family members helped to "push" her back into her body. There are other details she recounted to her Dr's that they grew pale in the face over-apparently they were joking about their golf game while doing the surgery. She says that coming back into her painful body hurt so badly that her first emotion was anger at being thrust back! Well, she has read scientific literature and she claims that it is difficult for her to discount her experience and I suppose with something of this nature, experience is the teacher and we'll all have to 'Wait and see!'

[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Plebe ]</p>

galiel

You're right, HD. Damn scientists should not have revealed the theory of germs, so as not to disillusion those who appealed to their preists for an excorcism, and also, damn skeptics, they weakened the religious priest's authority by revealing the sham behind their voodoo.

And, of course, scientists should never have revealed the discoveries about the common genetic make-up of all humans, and discounted old wives' tales about the inherent inferiority of non-white races--just look at what that did to those poor slave-traders!

And, of course, scientists and skeptics should never have labored during the Renaissance to rediscover previous knowledge, like that fact that the Earth is round, that the Church suppressed during the Dark Ages. Damn these logical people! Much better to huddle in fear around the fireplace, waiting for the Sun to be spat out by the monster that swallowed it during northern winters. Much better to stone witches. Much better to toss disabled babies on the trash heap. Much better to let those damn Africans starve.

Oh. I almost forgot, HD. You are using technology developed by scientists to communicate here, you can read and write because of the advances of science, you are most probably alive today because the scientifically-derived dramatic reductions in infant mortality mean that most people alive today would not exist without scientific advancement.

But then, why expect anything but hypocrisy from unquestioning superstitious followers. Enjoy the fruits of scientific knowledge while comfortably railing against it from your home, safely constructed using scientific methods, enjoying heat in the winter and cool in the summer thanks to science, eating food that won't kill you because of refrigeration, pasteurization, and sanitary hygiene developed by scientists.

Not to mention the fact that, if you are a woman, you wouldn't even be allowed to participate in this discussion if the religious authorities still called the shots. Not to mention the fact that, as a Wiccan, you would most likely have been burned at the stake long ago.

Yes, damn these skeptics and scientists, always sticking their noses where it doesn't belong and removing us from the lost paradise of mystical truths.

Sigh.

[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: galiel ]</p>

eh

You know you can always leave, right?

Marduk

Aren't we being a little hard on HD simply because he/she is afraid of dyin'?

galiel

No we are being hard on HD because she is advocating ignorance and seeks to supress knowledge. Why don't you criticise her for being "hard" on scientists and skeptics, whom she accuses of robbing mankind of hope?

Don't buy into these specious arguments in a misguided attempt to be politically correct. HD's argument is harmful to the well-being and future of humanity, it's not just a personal choice. As someone else said, HD can simply leave. And not read the newspapers, watch TV, use the modern transportation system or go to a medical facility when sick.