sweep

yes, he was quite a fibber, so you can probably rule that one out.

Fact: my friend and I heard footsteps, as did his brother and all of his friends. Ghosts aren't too popular, well mediated, and science doesn't fund research into them.

I don't understand why some of the posters here totally disregard strange phenomena. I don't care what your scheme of a 'ghost' tells you, the fact is that funny stuff does happen, and there are studies that monitor the activity responsible for strange occurences.

One study took place in one of the most haunted places in London, an old dungeon/torture chamber. This was a documentary I saw last year. The people that took part were hardened skeptics, like some of you. A lot of equipment was set up to recorded environmental changes. In two cases the people involved had to leave, because it freaked them out so much. The recording equipment didn't pick anything up. In one case, recordings did detect environmental changes, and we could see the girl involved. She reported feeling extremely uncomfortable and could feel a presence in the room with her. She really was 'shit scared', and wouldn't go back in afterwards. I only wish I could relay the special conditions that were responsible for the 'feeling' of a presence, as one scientist found out. I wonder if anyone else knows, or has posted. I'll backtrack!

Still some stuff, like voices and footsteps haven't been explained, and call them what you want, it happens.

We already know that life leaves traces of itself, such as an old smell, so why can't light of sound effect the surroundings; in particular, old wood? One thing I found interesting was when I threw out my old mattress. The image on the mattress was a bit like 'the shround of turin'. I had slept on that mattress so long that it had left a dark brown body mark. It was really bizarre to think that if I passed away this 'thing' on the mattress would still be there, haunting it. It was almost alive, and although composed of colonies of bacteria and the like, who knows what else lived in there.

Godless Dave

Not necessarily. When you dream you "see" things that can't be photographed. People who are hallucinating can see things that can't be photographed, because the things they're seeing only "exist" in their mind. I once saw demons cavorting on my walls, but if I'd taken a photograph they wouldn't have shown up, because they weren't really on my walls, my LSD-soaked brain was imagining they were.

If ghosts existed solely on a spiritual or mental plane (if such a thing existed) they might only make pictures and sounds in people's minds. Even the temperature drop some people associate with ghosts could be a hallucination. That could even be why Seraphim saw Death in a Chinese idiom; in the same situation a European sensitive might have seen a cloaked figure with a scythe, a raven, or a Valyrie. Like dreams and hallucinations they could be experienced but not directly measured. I like the PET scan idea, except that wouldn't tell us whether the experience came from the subjects imagination or was stimulated from an outside influence.

That's my explanation of how it could work, but personally I know of no convincing evidence that spiritual entities like ghosts exist.

sweep

so do I, but it isn't called a pet scan for nothing (positron emission tomography) How about FMRI scanning? much less dangerous.

And, once again, strange, unexplained occurences DO exist (not necessary ghosts, in name and scheme), both inside and outside of the mind, so there

Alludium Fozdex

Funny thing is, you can't get lost in that part of Maryland! Walk in one direction for longer than a couple of hours at most and you'll wind up in somebody's yard. There are subdivisions all over the place!

The Lone Ranger

Agreed. That's why I was careful to say "detected by the human eye," which is, after all, just an organic camera. If the "ghosts" in question exist in the person's mind (one way or another), they aren't literally being seen.


"Unexplained" does not imply unexplainable.

Most "ghost encounters," for instance, seem to be easily explainable as <a href="http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html" target="_blank">hypnagogic or hypnopompic experiences. </a>

It is well-known that stimulation of the temporal lobes of the brain can cause patients to experience "out of body experiences" as well as both visual and auditory hallucinations. Patients who recieve such direct stimulation of the temporal lobes via electrodes often report the experience as "profoundly spiritual."

Patients suffering from <a href="http://www.emedicine.com/NEURO/topic365.htm" target="_blank">Temporal Lobe Epilepsy (TLE)</a> often have visual and auditory hallucinations during epileptic attacks. If the epileptic attack spreads to the occipital lobe of the brain (this is where visual memories are stored), the illusions can be quite detailed and realistic. Again, brain scans of living patients show that a mild form of TLE is surprisingly common, and that a great many patients interpret their TLE episodes as "deeply spiritual" experiences.

In short, perfectly prosaic explanations for the existence of ghosts are available. Until and unless someone provides some actual evidence that ghosts exist it is only proper to be skeptical.

This is not being close-minded; it's being logical.

Cheers,

Michael

[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: The Lone Ranger ]</p>

Babylon Sister

A few questions about ghosts:

- if, as some people have believed, ghosts are "spirits" or the "essence" (i.e., non-corporeal remains)of a person, why do they need clothes?

- if, as other people believe, ghosts are the "electromagnetic remains" of a person, could you exorcise a haunted house with a can of Static Guard?

Alludium Fozdex

I'm glad I wasn't drinking something when I read that...
<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

thebeave

With regard to photographs of "ghosts", there have been several verified explanations. Such as:

1) Tiny light leaks in the camera creating images that occasionally form a ghostly human shape.

2) Accidental double exposures. This was more common in older cameras.

3) Camera wrist strip dangling in front of the lens while shooting with a flash.

4) Thumb over the lens.

5) Camera flash reflections off water vapor and/or dust. Someone recently posted a "ghostly" photo of this very thing on this forum.

6) "Seeing" human form in shadows, reflections, grainy film, etc that isn't really there. Much like seeing shapes in the clouds, Jesus on a fried tortilla, Satan's face in the smoke of the burning WTC tower or the Face on Mars.

7) Real people or "human form" in the picture that the photographer didn't realize was there. There is a scene in the movie Three Men and a Baby where some people claim that there is a "ghost boy" standing in the background. Actually, its a carboard cut-out of Ted Dansen. Snopes2.com has the photo if you want to check it out.

Anyone know of any more?

Oxymoron

Bad guy with a projector who wants the owner out real bad? ... oh no, that was Scooby Doo

Amie

see this is what I mean. If someone shares a story with you involving a ghost and took a picture, these possibilities would come up. I think in the situation with the ghost and seeing a ghost, for the most part one would have to see if for themselves since no explanation would be adequate for some...