crab juice

I was a "mostly-vegetarian" for the past five years...why "mostly"? Because once a week, my body would let me know that it NEEDED meat. I told myself that I didn't really NEED it, it was an illusion drummed into me by the beef companies or something, but it didn't change the fact that my body craved it. It was more intense during my pregnancies. My diet was mostly based on salads, potatoes, bread, and pasta.

So, fast-forward to about 4 months ago, I'm at the doctor because I feel that some of the health problems I've been noticing lately may be due to ovarian cysts. I find out that I'm insulin-resistant, and that in my body, potatoes, bread, and pasta are tweaking out my blood sugar and metabolism, and sending me down the merry road to adult-onset diabetes. My doctor tells me that if I want to avoid this almost-certain consequence, I need to cut out the starchy stuff and eat lots more protein. The most efficient way for me to get this protein is from meat. I'll also mention here that my doctor is in no way a wingnutty chakra-fondling alternative medicine practitioner...she didn't hesitate to shoot me up with an epidural when I wanted it.

Do I feel great about the fact that animals die for me to survive? No, I don't like it, and try to buy the most friendly animal products I can, like free-range eggs and organic meats. On the other hand, everything dies and becomes part of something else. Our bodies are poorly equipped for strict vegetarianism as well, my body at least works much better on a hunter-gatherer diet than a grain-based one. A cow or deer's stomach is very different in ours, evolved to get the maximum amount of nutrients from the food they eat. I wish my body tolerated these foods better, but the fact is that trying to be a vegetarian was making me sick, and being a meat-eater has not only alleviated all my problems, but I've lost 40 pounds as well. My meat-eating is not a religion, it is essential for my own survival. Is my wanting to survive with limbs and eyesight intact immoral?

(See how I did that, there?)

LordSnooty

It seems to me that your problems didn't stem from your vegetarianism, but from your poor diet. There is no reason whatsoever for vegetarianism to make a person (of normal health) ill.

Even if we assume I am mistaken, then medical necessesity is a different matter. If someone has to eat meat, then they have to eat meat.

But most people don't need to. They just do it because they like it.

Paul

Walross

Originally posted by LordSnooty:

Why not? I've known several vegetarians who had no moral problem with the idea of eating meat. Their reasons for being vegetarian ranged from health issues to (in the case of my sister) simple distaste for the flesh of animals. Regards,

Walross

Feather

I had just the opposite experience. I ate a fairly well balanced diet of meats and non-meats. Then quite abruptly, about a year ago, I noticed I'd become slightly nauseus after every meal with meat in it. It progressed over about four months until finally I'd get nauseated almost to the point of having to vomit, and I'd develop a bad case of watery bowels nearly every meal.

Then I stopped eating meat and quite abruptly I stopped becomming nauseated with my meals.

Since then I've lost 50 pounds and gained muscle mass. Quite odd, that.

brighid

Everyone's bodies are different. The insulin resistance Crabjuice speaks of is very common and when one understands how specific foods, specifically refined grains, sugars and even fruits and vegetables affect the human body (especially insulin resistance and diabetes) you learn that foods do exasberate or even cause these problems.

Food allergies are a problem for many people, and although they desire to eat certain foods or maintain a certain diet they cannot. In other discussions I have mentioned my estrogren dominance problems that was unknowingly worsened by the 25-35gs of soy I included in my "healthy diet." Soy is a natural estrogren and for someone who has WAY too much of it, it was making me very ill. My doctor told me I need to eliminate it from my diet as completely as possible. I also started on a diet that eliminated refined sugars, artifical sweetners, increasing the wheat and other fibers in my diet to help remove some of the estrogens in my system, along with increasing certain vitamins, essential fatty acids and restricting breads, pastas and potatoes.

It was a real bummer to eliminate soy based products from my diet because I enjoyed many of them - except tofu. I just couldn't assimilate myself to liking it. Many health food, vegetarian and meal replacement items contain soy so I had to get rid of my Genisoy shakes, bars, some vegetarian items, etc. I have to stick to whey protein for meal replacement items like shakes and bars, although large quantities of whey doesn't agree with me at all.

I try and keep a journal of my meals, my exercise, weight and body fat ratios. I have found that even though my exercise levels remain the same, the protein/carbohydrate, specifically the high gylcemic carbs (white bread, pasta, potatoes, etc.) are really the killer in my weight control/loss battle. I eat lots of vegetables, fiberous fruits (like berries, apples, etc.), whole grain breads but I really don't like whole wheat pastas and REALLY don't like the ones that have protein added to them, lean, organic meats, fish and take a special set of vitamins every day. It is a huge help, but it is really hard to give up those other things!

As much as this argument about diet/health, etc. is a moral stomping ground for so many people I personally feel it should be an individual choice and not an absolute moral mandate imposed upon any one by industry, special interest groups or otherwise.

My body's needs are unique. A completely vegetarian diet does not meet my needs and through careful research, thorough logging of diet, exercise, progress and loss, medical (for hormonal and allergy problems)and dietary evaluation and treatment I am healthiest eating an omnivorous diet rich in lean meats, unrefined grains, fruits and vegetables. I have to take much less medication for my asthma (induced by environmental and food allergies) and hormone treatment has been put off as the changes in my diet and exercise have adequately addressed those problems. THANKFULLY!

I do my best to minimize the damage my presence on this Earth has on the environment all "Her" creatures must share in order to survive. Unfortunately I cannot leave this Earth untouched or in some way harmed by my presence. I think that is the best any one can do, and what we should all strive for given the limitations of our unique situations.

Brighid

lisarea

I was a vegetarian as a teenager, for about five years. I never made a big deal out of it, and it was largely motivated by the fact that I just didn't like meat. I never lectured anyone on eating meat, I never made anyone go to great lengths to accommodate my diet or anything, but all the same, you'd think it was a personal offense to some people.

I had people try to slip me meat in food, and accuse me of all manner of crimes against humanity because of a simple personal choice I'd made. I remember one particularly insistent girl trying to get me to eat a pig in a blanket. I was skinny, so people accused me of being anorexic. People would ascribe all kinds of philosophies to me without asking.

Does ANY of this sound familiar?

There are good arguments on both sides of the issue, and everyone has to make their own decision based on those, but the whole pre-emptive attack thing just sort of rubs me the wrong way. The picture in the article even looks a little like something from a Jack Chick pamphlet.

Rusting Car Bumper

Yes. It sounds exactly like how some raving vegetarians behave.

Thee are no "good arguments" on either side. There is only personal preference.

DC

LordSnooty

It's not so much personal preference as a moral choice. I may be splitting hairs, but I don't see my vegetarianism as a 'personal preference'.

I'd 'prefer' to eat meat, because I like it, but I don't because doing so would be morally repugnant to me.

It comes down to this: Do you feel you have the right to end a life? If you do, eat meat. If you don't, then become a vegetarian.

Paul

Rusting Car Bumper

I don't think that one can make a morally compelling argument for vegetarianism WITHOUT appealing to mere arbitrary and personal distinctions.

I ate squash, carrots and Lasagna (with beef) last night. In all three cases I ended a life.

It's personal preference.

DC

LordSnooty

By that rationale, you can't make a compelling argument against murder 'without appealing to arbitrary and personal distinctions'. An animal is a living being, that shares many of our perceptions of the world. They can feel pain and fear, and to intentionally cause such feelings in any creature is morally unacceptable.
Animal life is quite clearly distinct from vegetable life. Vegetables are incapable of any thought or feeling, so the rules do not apply.

I'll be honest, I think that if someone is aware of how animals are kept and then killed, and then still eats meat, it's because they lack emphathy. Either that, or vegetarians have a surfeit of it.
Then so is murder. Meat eating simply should not be tolerated in the civilised world. It is pain and death without any justification beyond the fulfilment of pleasure.

You eat it if you want, but don't try to pretend you do so with moral impunity.

Paul