Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Muad'Dib · 03-06-2003, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PerhapsItsTruth
Well then, if there is no absolute proof God does not exist, why take the stance that he surely doesn't?

I don't.

Quote:

You then become just as the believer, you have your stance by faith.

What kind of faith are you talking about?

PerhapsItsTruth · 03-06-2003, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Muad'Dib
I don't.

Rock on.

Quote:

What kind of faith are you talking about?

Not talking on religions.

Zadok001 · 03-06-2003, 04:26 PM

PerhapsItsTruth:

You missed a post in your responses. Family Man pointed out that from what you've said so far, you put belief in the existance of God in the same category as belief in the II classic: The Invisible Pink Unicorn that farted out the universe last Thursday, fully formed.

Now, if this is the case, you should probably believe in the IPU and God equally. I certainly do. Does God rank higher than the IPU for some reason?

Silent Dave · 03-06-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PerhapsItsTruth
Sure, that's logical. But then, you have to give your evidence of how those properties are truly not being observed. Then, you have to take into account of whether God does them in the way that you look for them, or if he does them in how he himself sees fit.

Happy to. Just so long as you give your evidence of how the properties of the Invisible Pink Unicorn who has sat on your shoulder since bith are truly not being observed. Then, you have to take into account of whether the IPU does them in the way that you look for them, or if she does them in how she herself sees fit.

In all seriousness, however, these ideas have been taken into account by philosophers, and both conditions have been met in constructing quality atheological arguments, both logical and evidential.

Dave

AmericanHeretic · 03-06-2003, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Well then, if there is no absolute proof God does not exist, why take the stance that he surely doesn't? You then become just as the believer, you have your stance by faith.

1) It is logically impossible to prove a negative. Please pull ahead to the second window.

2) Our Burden of Proof special was last week, sorry, no argument discounts are currently available for our delicious Mythburger and Super(size)natural Fries. We do have a really neato plastic Jebus action figure with bobbing head and pious wave hand action, with sturdy velcro dashboard mount, while supplies last.

3) Sorry, this is an evidence only fast logic restaurant. Faith Stamps and Maybe Perhaps Vouchers are not accepted. Pull ahead and a manager will explain store policy to you.

4) Thanks for learning at "Faithless Atheist Fast Logic" and have a nice day

Fiach · 03-06-2003, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PerhapsItsTruth
I find this forum an absolute hilarity because I watch as people go back and forth saying this and that and all in between of why, or why not, a god can, or cannot, exist. The reason why I find it hilarious is that neither person can prove with irrefutable proof that a god does indeed exist or not.

You have the atheist that gives his evidence. You have the believer that gives his evidence.

Wrong. The Atheist gives no evidence and admits that there is no evidence for or against God. We do not believe in the existence of God because we have no reason to do so. We also cannot claim that God, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, UFO abductions, Jonathan Edwards talking to the dead are definitely disprovable. That is faulty logic in dealing with a negative hypothesis.

But the sad thing about it all is that no matter what evidence is given from either side, no matter how "convincing" it may be, we still let our faith (yes, faith) get the better of us.

There is no evidence so the rest of the statement is ludricous.

An atheist has his faith and strong belief that he is right in his opinion, as does the believer.

Absolutely wrong. You do not understand the literal or practical definition of Atheism. There is no faith involved in lacking faith. There is no belief in not having a belief. I say again, "I DO NOT believe in the existence of God." I did not say that I deny the possibility of any kind of invisible God. How can you twist an absence of belief into belief? I do not believe that I have an invisible twin brother (ITB). You would call that non-belief in my ITB, a belief that my ITB does not exist, and constitutes belief.

Besides, something that you cannot see and cannot "test" by scientific means cannot be proven to be or not to be.

So you think my invisible twin brother may or may not exist.

In the end, I just find all this rather humorous, and sad, as I watch all the ignorant give their reasons while still getting absolutely nowhere. Post on, 'Infidels', post on.

We can't possibly have an intelligent debate with you because you are ignorant. You do not understand definitons of key words. You fail to understand the Greek prefix "A" means without. "Theism" means belief in god." Atheism means lacking a belief in God, not possessing a belief of any kind." Duh.

-Perhaps... [/B]

Go back and finish grade 5, go on to High School then come back and maybe you will get some of this. You are ignorant and your Troll post exposes your IQ.

Fiach

Jobar · 03-06-2003, 06:25 PM

Perhaps, we have various common sayings around here- let's try this one. "If atheism is a belief, then bald is a hair color."

See how easy that was?

Fiach- temper, temper. Yes he's sneering, but he only *thinks* he sneers at us.

PerhapsItsTruth · 03-06-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmericanHeretic
1) It is logically impossible to prove a negative. Please pull ahead to the second window.

2) Our Burden of Proof special was last week, sorry, no argument discounts are currently available for our delicious Mythburger and Super(size)natural Fries. We do have a really neato plastic Jebus action figure with bobbing head and pious wave hand action, with sturdy velcro dashboard mount, while supplies last.

3) Sorry, this is an evidence only fast logic restaurant. Faith Stamps and Maybe Perhaps Vouchers are not accepted. Pull ahead and a manager will explain store policy to you.

4) Thanks for learning at "Faithless Atheist Fast Logic" and have a nice day

Now only one thing left. Prove that it's a negative, then I'll say, "Okay, you don't have to prove the negative."

-Perhaps

Philosoft · 03-06-2003, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PerhapsItsTruth
Now only one thing left. Prove that it's a negative, then I'll say, "Okay, you don't have to prove the negative."

(1) Any belief claim of the type 'I lack belief in X' is a negative claim.
(2) Atheism is a lack of belief in God or gods.
(C) Therefore, atheism is a negative claim.

QED.

PerhapsItsTruth · 03-06-2003, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fiach
Go back and finish grade 5, go on to High School then come back and maybe you will get some of this. You are ignorant and your Troll post exposes your IQ.

Fiach

"And as we all watch the little man spurt out insanities, the truth reveals itself."

Common, get above put downs. Unless that's the lowest level you can reach, then I understand. And as I can see, Fiach, you have a problem with "close reading." I never said you had faith in a god. I said that you have faith in your own opinion. Big difference there. And if you deny that you hold within yourself that abhored thing we know as "faith" and "believing," then you're just screwed for life. Which means, you have no trust in anyone or yourself. Belief is everywhere. You believe and have faith that the food you get from the store is good enough to eat. You believe and have faith that you can trust your friend. You believe and have faith that the home where you're at is safe enough to sleep in at night. So on, so forth. So...as it has been explained again, I said you have faith, but I didn't say "faith in a god." So as for this ignorant troll, I rest my point on that, unless of course you'd just like to skim through reading again. If so, be my guest, and I'll explain it all over again for the little man who hasn't gotten the point yet, unless you just want to rise above it all and treat one another with respect instead of pathetic put downs and assumptions, eh?

-Perhaps...

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03-06-2003, 04:26 PM	#13
Zadok001 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Two Steps Ahead Posts: 1,124	PerhapsItsTruth: You missed a post in your responses. Family Man pointed out that from what you've said so far, you put belief in the existance of God in the same category as belief in the II classic: The Invisible Pink Unicorn that farted out the universe last Thursday, fully formed. Now, if this is the case, you should probably believe in the IPU and God equally. I certainly do. Does God rank higher than the IPU for some reason?

03-06-2003, 06:25 PM	#17
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Perhaps, we have various common sayings around here- let's try this one. "If atheism is a belief, then bald is a hair color." See how easy that was? Fiach- temper, temper. Yes he's sneering, but he only thinks he sneers at us.

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