Amos

Hi MollyMac, I am never part of the argument nor did I suggest that Christ found me.

My response here is that not me but Christ liveth in me. Go to Romans 8:10 "and I died. The commandment that should have led to life brought me death."

Also go to Hebrews "where a there is a testament, it is necessary that the death of the testator be confirmed. For a testament comes into force only in the case of death; it has no force while the testator is alive" (9:16-17).

The change we are looking for is not a change of behavior but a change of identity for "flesh begets flesh" and unless the former has died the second imposter will be much worse than the first (Mt.27:64). This is serious stuff MollyMac and I suggest we do not tamper which that which isn't ours to tamper with. Instead, we should invoke Mary to lead our way or we will surely be led to hell by the angel of light and prince of imposters.

A good beginning is to wonder why Mary is for Catholics only.

Amos

MollyMac is right. What Americans call salvation is really a form of spiritual fornication and if they are successfull, it will, like losing your virginity, leave a imprint upon your soul. They'll jump and hoot and holler for a while but sonner or later this will wear down and if it doens't this means that their vision has been impared to leave them stranded beyond the possible return to sanity.

Those will not be pretenders and will not be lying about their salvation but will just have fallen into the hands of deceit and therefore will never be able to work out their salvation and therefore they will die nonetheless (Jn.6:58).

You're lucky BG that you never got raped like Lucretia.

GeoTheo

I was suicidal and had a lot of pent up anger and resentment towards society and people in general before I became a Christian. I've always been kind of an oddball and used to get ridiculed a lot as a child. I became very withdrawn and reclusive. At a certian point a made a decision to stop being a victom and began to lash out at people. By being kind of strange and being very passive caused me to get harassed but being strange and aggressive caused people to be afraid of me and avoidant. At first I kind of enjoyed it but after a while it only caused me to become more isolated from others. This made me more miserable becuase in my heart I wanted to be a good person. Then I encountered a person who was very pure and good. I had been an outsider all of my life and an observer of people. This person did not make any sense to me. I felt that I had started out wanting to be pure and good but had become warped and corrupted. I waited for this to happen to this person. But it didn't seem to happen. He was a Christian and I watched him get ridiculed for his faith. I thought that this would cause him to turn on people and hate people, but it didn't. So I asked him.
"Why are you so good?" He said "In my self I am not good, it is only through Christ living in me that you see good in me."
He explained to me about Christ. I asked him if I could accept Christ as my savior. He explained how I could and I prayed with him and accepted Christ.
I didn't have any emotional reaction. I thought that I was supposed to. He assured me that that can happen to people but is not neccesary. The change in me is that I began to see beauty in the world again. I began to think about God. I think the emotionalism is not what changes people. It is meditating on God's word that changes people and the realization of the ramifications of being forgiven and being a child of God. People noticed a big change in me. People that weren't Christians. My countenance changed. I was in the Army at the time and I had an Army ID. I remember looking at it and not recocgnizing myself. I looked pretty scary in the eyes. People didn't like to look me in the eyes. I really relate to amazing grace because I feel that I really was wretched and lost and was found. I also began to see others in a different light as needing Christ also and I didn't hate them any more. I didn't become perfect over night, but I stopped dwelling on what was dark in the world. I began to attend church and became outgoing toward the Christians because I really felt I had a bond with them. I developed a rift between my mother though because I no longer was involved in the occult and we had been involved in that together, but eventually came to an understanding.
Later I went to Bible college and spent a summer working with street people and former drug addicts who were at a Camp in the catskills. I really developed a Bond with them because they were fellow Christians who had once been considered outcasts like me.
I saw a huge transformation in their lives as well as they began to grow and be more like Christ. Some were even murderers who had been in prison, others were HIV positive and some had horrible needle scars. But we had a strong bond that transcended these cultural and often racial barriers. One man I became really close to said I was the first white person he ever had as a friend. That is why I think Christ is real. The power he has in peoples lives and how he is able to unite people.

Bree

Your story of self-transformation is very powerful, and obviously very meaningful for you. Thanks for sharing - seriously. I now at least understand why your beliefs are so incredibly important to you and why you so militantly defend them.

I'm wondering why you (and so many others like you) feel the need to attribute your decision to turn your life around to some higher power. The fact that you were successful speaks, to me, of your personal willpower, of your committment to make of yourself a better person. When you say that goddidit, it seems that you're giving away some of the credit which should rightfully be yours - you are the one, after all, who did all the work.

wildernesse

Blondegoddess,

I didn't really see this thread until today, so here's a bit of my explanation.

I was raised from birth in a devout fundamentalist Christian family, and when I became old enough to think about what "Christian" meant to my family (realizing that sometimes I did not act nicely/lovingly and being sorry for how that affected others and myself, accepting and following Christ in my life to help me make better decisions and not hurt myself/others) I became a Christian. I was baptized and became a member of the church.

Throughout my life, I have had experiences that I would expect if my beliefs were true. I think that my behavior has changed due to my religion, and is different than it would be if I were not a Christian.

--tibac

GeoTheo

Well thank you Bree. The only thing I can really say is that I really think I was transformed. I think will power is what got me from getting picked on and beat up to beating other people up.
If you ever watched "Full metal Jacket" Private Pyle was a character very similar to me and my experience in the Army. I'm not saying I don't think people can be very moral without God, But in my case I think it was God that got me to see the beauty in the world and to love people again.
I can still relate to really angry people that hate the world, though. When the DC snipers were still undescovered, I heard people say "How could some one kill all those innocent people?"
I could relate to why they would. It is because normal every day people can be unbelievably cruel and inhumane to others. Sweet little girls even. My sister had a pigment problem with her skin and sweet little girls used to call her a leper, to the point that she would hide from people and not go out in public. Normal good looking popular kids in school were the ones that turned my name into an insult they called other kids. Without God, I really don't see how I could forgive people for things like that. I think people can only absorb so much hatred. When I started to stand up for myself it felt pretty good but the hatred didn't become quenched. It became intoxicating. My experience is also why I believe in evil. I believe I was embodying it. I was really into my art work as an escape and I became really good at it. But It was a kind of stream of conciousness type thing. I churned out unbelievably evil horrifying violent images. And people with strange penetrating eyes. You may have seen some really dark artwork like this. These people are always self taught IME. I think they are tapping into somthing.
Christ enabled me to forgive people because I felt forgiven. I think Christ was really the only perfect man. I think he absorbed all the evil and hatred in the world and took it to the cross and bled it out in his blood. I think that is what would happen to a perfect person. They would attract hatred and evil like a magnet.
But I believe the transforming power comes from the ressurection and not the teachings. I believe I have been ressurected with Christ. I believe the old me died. And that is why I am a new creature. I think the love I was able to show was a new creation.
I think it is from God. I think the people in the Camp I worked at could see that in me and I could see it in them.

GeoTheo

I know what you mean. I can relate to that part too. about the experiences. Nothing really seems to prove God, but the experiences seem to go in line with what you would expect to be true. Especially if you try to do somthing based on faith and it works out, where otherwise it wouldn't seem to make sense. Like praying and feeling like God is trying to reassure you.
Also, there are a few people that really encourage me just by being themselves. Once in a while I meet Christians that really seem to eminate love. I have met some Missionaries like this. I think it is from them going thrrough so many hardships and seeing God come through for them and transform peoples lives. Especially in third world countries. It is mostly women I have met that are like that. Love just seems to flow out of them and you feel like God is really with them. I think about these people when I have doubts.

Ronin

When reading christian responses like these, I often wonder just how it is that someone can equate the same Christ character, that is written of in their holy book, as an example of goodness.

Where does this idea spring from, having read the bible, that the Christ figure is a good person or even perfect?

How can it be perceived as sensible that a God sired himself through a human who never had sex, just so he could sacrifice himself to himself in order to appease his own anger at his own imperfect creation and that supplication to this absent deity somehow makes one as a friend of this deity so that it brings them comfort despite the same ambiguous tragedies occurring to them and the whole of humanity now and throughout time?

beth

Thank you, Geo and Tibac. Geo, thank you for opening up and risking vulnerability by sharing. I am glad that you found something to give you direction.

Ronin

Yes, direction is good, if it harm none.

Now, if only someone can come along and make sense of the christian fables and how they apply to goodness and love.