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Old 04-06-2003, 05:34 PM   #51
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What if Phelps, Hitler, et al have done what they have because they honestly thought they were doing what Jesus would have wanted? Do they get in?
Great question. Keep in mind that Phelps is doing what the Bible says - see Leviticus for more details.
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Old 04-06-2003, 07:53 PM   #52
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Great question. Keep in mind that Phelps is doing what the Bible says - see Leviticus for more details.
He may be, but if he is he is living under the wrong covenant and seriously misguided.

Kevin
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Old 04-06-2003, 07:54 PM   #53
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He may be, but if he is he is living under the wrong covenant and seriously misguided.

Kevin
Gee, I guess he didn't get the memo.
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Old 04-06-2003, 11:50 PM   #54
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He may be, but if he is he is living under the wrong covenant and seriously misguided.
I assume that by "the wrong covenant" you mean the Old Testament. Please don't forget about Paul's condemnation of homosexuals in Romans 1, I Corinthians 6, I Timothy 1, and II Timothy 3. I don't think you could argue that Paul's words are the "wrong covenant" - Christians seem to take the nicey-nice stuff Paul says seriously, so his not-so-nice stuff should go in the same barrel.
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Old 04-07-2003, 06:05 AM   #55
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I assume that by "the wrong covenant" you mean the Old Testament. Please don't forget about Paul's condemnation of homosexuals in Romans 1, I Corinthians 6, I Timothy 1, and II Timothy 3. I don't think you could argue that Paul's words are the "wrong covenant" - Christians seem to take the nicey-nice stuff Paul says seriously, so his not-so-nice stuff should go in the same barrel.
I didn't forget about those. What I was referring to was the fact that the punishment he wants to mete out, and his unloving attitude are not new covenant attitudes. Under the new covenant we are to be people of grace. People who treat those caught in traps of sin, whatever they may be, with love and not with hate. People who follow the example of Jesus.

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Old 04-07-2003, 12:17 PM   #56
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What I was referring to was the fact that the punishment he wants to mete out, and his unloving attitude are not new covenant attitudes. Under the new covenant we are to be people of grace. People who treat those caught in traps of sin, whatever they may be, with love and not with hate. People who follow the example of Jesus.
Do you think you could drum up any examples of "new covenant attitudes" - perhaps a few examples that Jesus gives us? Also - if Jesus was the new covenant, then why does 99.999% of Christianity include the teachings of people other than Jesus in their doctrine? Like I said earlier - the words of Paul are given just as much weight as sermon fodder as the words of Christ - why is that, and do you think it's correct?
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Old 04-07-2003, 12:47 PM   #57
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Do you think you could drum up any examples of "new covenant attitudes" - perhaps a few examples that Jesus gives us? Also - if Jesus was the new covenant, then why does 99.999% of Christianity include the teachings of people other than Jesus in their doctrine? Like I said earlier - the words of Paul are given just as much weight as sermon fodder as the words of Christ - why is that, and do you think it's correct?
Yep. The new covenant advocates love, grace, and mercy. That is what it is built upon. Why are Paul's writings included? Because the Holy Spirit, Jesus' spokesperson, spoke through him to help the church live out these new covenant values.

Kevin
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Old 04-07-2003, 01:19 PM   #58
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Yep. The new covenant advocates love, grace, and mercy. That is what it is built upon. Why are Paul's writings included? Because the Holy Spirit, Jesus' spokesperson, spoke through him to help the church live out these new covenant values.

Kevin
The holy spokesman. Good one.
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Old 04-08-2003, 09:23 AM   #59
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Yep. The new covenant advocates love, grace, and mercy. That is what it is built upon. Why are Paul's writings included? Because the Holy Spirit, Jesus' spokesperson, spoke through him to help the church live out these new covenant values.
But it wasn't the holy spirit whenever he said things that weren't quite so nice, right?
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Old 04-08-2003, 09:28 AM   #60
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Why are Paul's writings included? Because the Holy Spirit, Jesus' spokesperson, spoke through him to help the church live out these new covenant values.
So those negative, anti-gay sentiments expressed in the verses I included above are from the Holy Spirit? If they're not, then why would God choose a messenger that couldn't keep his personal opinions out of the Holy Writ? Or is this another "God knows his heart" question?
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