yaktldg

nowhere: Are you saying reality is predetermined?

No

nowhere: Thus I consider "free will" to be equivalent to "will".

I think that just adds to the confusion, and makes discussions like these impossible.

If I consider unicorns to be equivalent to apples, I'll think you're crazy when you tell me unicorns don't exist.

Nowhere357

We are talking about the ability to choose. This is known as will. Also known as free will. Both terms refer to the same concept. Where exactly is your confusion?

yaktldg

nowhere: We are talking about the ability to choose. This is known as will.

Okay.

nowhere: Also known as free will.

I think "free" requires will to be "unconstrained by external agencies", so I don't think they're synonymous.

Nowhere357

Yeah, I know. I hate that phrase - it's too problematic. But then it's a generic definition from a standard dictionary.

Although it can be seen to mean "not predetermined" or something, I think many people see it to mean something like "outside of the bounds of natural physics" and based on that, I agree there is no such thing.

The term free will carries with it a load of theistic baggage. I think if we want to explore our ability to make decisions, we should ditch the term and stick with good old ordinary will. And if someone uses the words free will, unless they make clear they want to talk about the theistic angle (God gave us free will, or whatever) then we should just figure they mean will, and be done with it. See how the term interferes with communication? Several posts, and not the tiniest step in the direction we are trying to move. Well I'm rambling, so I better go now.