Buddrow_Wilson

yes, nation building is the new emperialism

Zar

Colin Powell is a liar.

And the audience must have been a bunch of dupes to fall for that one. It is absolutely absurd to think the complaints about the United States only become valid when it annexes territory outright. No one is accusing the U.S. of making, say, Indonesia the 51st state of the union, so it is a disgusting straw man to shoot this ridiculous, non-existent argument down.

I have nothing but scorn for him, and really don't care what he has to say. He did nothing but play "good cop" to Bush's "bad cop." He has always been a career mined guy and is much more like the hawks than many realize.

Gurdur

Hawaii ?

Gurdur

Good question, I'll answer this one in my own way, though not directed to me.

1) De-industrialization

The USA is moving headlong to a de-industrialized service economy,
Lots of badly-paid jobs, loss of skilled labouring.
Consequent downward relative shift of large part of popualtion.

2) Double deficit.
The USA is borrowing too much and spending too much.

3) dependence upon foreign investment in:
a) USA bonds
If the Japanese money flows out, the USA crashes

b) using the USA $ as forex.
If the euro takes over in a big way, the USA loses a huge interest-free loan. The USA comes very near to crashing.

4) Dependence upon consumer spending internally.
Private savings within the USA are now at their lowest relative level since the Great Depression.

5) Over-inflation of stocks and shares. Still much room for a downward correction in the stock market.

6) Badly implemented social security (the result of compromises between radically different ideological forces).
Lots of money gets spent on health care and it doesn't acheive much within the USA.
France and Germany acheive more and better at a lower cost to their GNP.



Welcome to the coming crash.

spurly

Yes. We want a government in Iraq that is friendly. But not just friendly to us - friendly to their neighbors in the region and their neighbors in the world community. And friendly to their own citizens as well. The current regime in Iraq is not friendly, even to people in their own country.

Kevin

Gurdur

This explains why the USA is so determined to push democracy in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or in the past Chile 1972, Greece with the Coup, Spain till 1975, Portugal till 1972, etc.

The USA has always been a true friend of democracy, as long as it doesn't seem to threaten American interests.

Care to tell us how citizen-friendly the USA-supported previous regime in Zaire was ?

Majestyk

Hawaii? Does moving in and displacing a stone age culture count? U.S. imperialsim was the classical definition during the days of "Manifest Destiny". During which time, all the stone age people that lay between the two oceans were treated as less than human. Hawaiians were treated with kindness in comparison to the tribes that resided on the lands which now compomise the continental U.S.

Current claims of U.S. imperialism, stretch the usage of the word. Hegemony? Sure. Imperialism? No.

Somewhere else in this massive thread, was the claim that the U.S. had a "ruling elite". This is true. It's called the judiciary. They are the only people within the government that may rule. Other than that we have the rule of law in the U.S. It's not perfect but it's better than the rule of individuals or mobs.

Administrations execute their duties under the framework of that law. In essence the and they congress fulfil the will of the people. Maybe not the fickle whims of the moment but, the views that are held over time.

Regardless of which political party is in office, it is we that set the tone for them to follow.

Gurdur

Charming.
But why stop there ?

Why not simply steal the land of any culture you deem as inferior to yours ?

spurly

Here's the way America works - in case you missed it. We cherish our freedom so much, that we want others who are under the rule of tyrants to be free as well. We want them to have what we have. To be like us? No. But to have the opportunity to be free in their own way.

So when we free people like we did in Afghanistan and will do in Iraq we are helping the people to shake off an unjust leadership and set up a free country of their own - not ruled by us.

Kevin

Gurdur

uh huh.
Here are the salient points, in case you missed them.

The USA did nothing to help Chilean people to democracy, in fact there are suggestions that it actively helped Pinochet's murdeous regime.

The USA did nothing to help the Greek people when the military ruled after a coup --- in fact it cooperated with the military regime.

The USA actively sought to destabalise any country it didn't like the look of, and didn't give a fig for democracy in many places.

You think South America has much to thank the USA for ?

Spurly, I await with anticipation your coming to grips with your country's sordid past.