Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mad Kally · 05-01-2002, 05:46 PM

What of people who claim healing who don't appear to have a psychosomatic disorder?

They don't appear to have a psychosomatic disorder. Have you ever watched the faith healers on TV? People jump out of their wheelchairs or throw their crutches away. They are convinced that they were healed when it was only psychosomatic to begin with. Hysterical paralysis, blindness and so on. Like I said before, to the person suffering from a somatoform disorder, it's all very real to them. It also makes for a great miracle TV show..

OTOH, many people give up appropriate medical treatment due to this sort of quackery. They do die as as result of that.

Tercel · 05-01-2002, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Kally:
You hear many, many stories? Do you hear them at church functions?

Suprisingly enough, most of the religious testimonies I hear, I hear at Church...
Also, like E-muse, my friends do tell me things they have seen.
I also enjoy reading books where people have written about their lives and experiences. -Of course, hearing the person who has experienced the things talk (and preferably being able to discuss it with them) is preferable as you can better assess what you feel are the chances of them lying or being mistaken as to their experiences, but since I can't talk personally to everyone everywhere I have to mostly settle for reading about people's experiences.

Mad Kally · 05-01-2002, 08:54 PM

Some documentation would be nice. People can believe whatever they want, but that doesn't make it real.

Vorkosigan · 05-02-2002, 01:49 AM

Because of this, the statistics of people recovering from cancer who are non-religious should be the same for those who have a religious conviction.

Assuming that having religious convictions has no other positive effects for cancer...

Vorkosigan

wordsmyth · 05-02-2002, 02:59 AM

Spontaneous remission of cancer? I say, so what? We may not know what causes the cancer to spontaneously go into remission, but that doesn't mean we never will. Until about 1998 nobody thought brain cells could regenerate. That was just 5 years ago.

A little off topic, but you may find it interesting. My father is 58 years old and has never been a religious man. He was born color blind. One morning about 15 years ago he woke up and was suddenly able to distinguish colors. At the time the doctors couldn't explain it. After a few years, a lot of tests and a couple minor surgeries... voila!, the doctors suddenly figured out what had happened. He didn't pray for it to happen and he never assumed it was a miracle. Though he is quite happy that it did happen.

E_muse · 05-02-2002, 04:21 AM

Quote:

I know people who recovered from cancer after homosexual sex. Sex therefore cures cancer.

I think you've missed the point of my question at least. Do we have any examples of people who have recovered from cancer with no medical intervention or or when medical intervention would be pointless? Also, are there examples of both religious and non-religious occurences?

This hasn't answered my question.

E_muse · 05-02-2002, 04:27 AM

Quote:

My father is 58 years old and has never been a religious man. He was born color blind.

I know someone else who was colourblind but gained an ability to distinguish colours. He is a Christian.

Given your example, his recovery might not be that remarkable. What was interesting is that people who didn't know he had the problem told him about it and that God wanted to heal him.

I also know of someone who experienced a remarkable remission from MS (I call it a remission because the disease is so unpredictable). They went to a prayer meeting in a wheelchair but were able to drive home.

[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: E_muse ]</p>

E_muse · 05-02-2002, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Assuming that having religious convictions has no other positive effects for cancer...

Vorkosigan

Indeed.

cricket · 05-02-2002, 05:02 AM

Quote:

One morning about 15 years ago he woke up and was suddenly able to distinguish colors. At the time the doctors couldn't explain it. After a few years, a lot of tests and a couple minor surgeries... voila!, the doctors suddenly figured out what had happened.

How did they figure out what happened? How DID it happen?

wordsmyth · 05-02-2002, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cricket:
<strong>
How did they figure out what happened? How DID it happen?</strong>

Thats a good question, but I don't remember exactly what the doctors told him. Something to do with the optic nerve, I think. I'll ask him when I see him and let you know.

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05-01-2002, 05:46 PM	#21
Mad Kally Banned Join Date: May 2001 Location: LALA Land in California Posts: 3,764	What of people who claim healing who don't appear to have a psychosomatic disorder? They don't appear to have a psychosomatic disorder. Have you ever watched the faith healers on TV? People jump out of their wheelchairs or throw their crutches away. They are convinced that they were healed when it was only psychosomatic to begin with. Hysterical paralysis, blindness and so on. Like I said before, to the person suffering from a somatoform disorder, it's all very real to them. It also makes for a great miracle TV show.. OTOH, many people give up appropriate medical treatment due to this sort of quackery. They do die as as result of that.

05-01-2002, 08:54 PM	#23
Mad Kally Banned Join Date: May 2001 Location: LALA Land in California Posts: 3,764	Some documentation would be nice. People can believe whatever they want, but that doesn't make it real.

05-02-2002, 01:49 AM	#24
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Because of this, the statistics of people recovering from cancer who are non-religious should be the same for those who have a religious conviction. Assuming that having religious convictions has no other positive effects for cancer... Vorkosigan

05-02-2002, 02:59 AM	#25
wordsmyth Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Des Moines, Ia. U.S.A. Posts: 521	Spontaneous remission of cancer? I say, so what? We may not know what causes the cancer to spontaneously go into remission, but that doesn't mean we never will. Until about 1998 nobody thought brain cells could regenerate. That was just 5 years ago. A little off topic, but you may find it interesting. My father is 58 years old and has never been a religious man. He was born color blind. One morning about 15 years ago he woke up and was suddenly able to distinguish colors. At the time the doctors couldn't explain it. After a few years, a lot of tests and a couple minor surgeries... voila!, the doctors suddenly figured out what had happened. He didn't pray for it to happen and he never assumed it was a miracle. Though he is quite happy that it did happen.

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