Sabine Grant

I tend to agree that suicidal individuals can be restored into the desire to live if both counseling and medications are provided.
People can become suicidal as they feel overwhelmed by circumstances while their rational is paralized by their emotions. People can also suffer of clinical depression and in that case drugs can definitly make a difference. My mother is an example of a person who is maintained into a relatively normal life despite of the diagnosis of a psychosis which can lead her to suicidal thoughts.
I think suicide becomes an ethical problem as family and friends will undoubtly suffer that loss thru feelings of guilt and helplessness. " what could have I done or said to prevent it?". IMO teen suicide is the most tragic form of suicide as it often happens unexpectedly. It is indeed tragic for a young person to consider life unworthy to be lived. To not be able to see his or her potential in the future.To not be able to think that they will make a difference in someone else's life.
I support fully programs which involve teens in social activities where they can see how they can contribute to less priviledged individuals.
Somewhere maybe someone has already started a program where depressed teens are sponsored by old folks in nursing homes who give them a sense of purpose. And vice versa.

I do not consider euthanasia a form of suicide. If applied by a terminaly ill patient. It is a short cut then. Living Wills and DNR orders IMO are not suicidal measures. They are choices to not prolongue a medical condition which has restricted someone's life's expectancy. Refusing treatment and life saving measures can be considered as "passive suicide" but in reality they are a choice made by an individual who does not desire to go thru his illness. If palliative care can modify the degree of physical suffering, all the handicaps which result from certain terminal and progressive illnesses such as ALS can never be compensated by any treatment.
Euthanasia is a measure of mercy... suicide a measure of despair.

And yes we do have a duty to watch over this friend or family member who " has not been like himself lately". I remember the shock for the family and friends of a young christian man who was the happy bubbly type always on the go....people can also hide their distress behind a front of " I am just fine and dandy".
It is so important to get close to people, to read between their lines ( so to speak), to never take their exterior joy for granted.

Defiant Heretic

It sounds like you're begging the question. (If someone is suicidal, then they are depressed and therefore mentally unstable. Therefore it is irrational to be suicidal.)

tronvillain

Being clinically depressed does not mean that one is "possessive of a lower state of mental ability." When one is depressed one may easily still capable of making rational decisions, it is simply that when it comes to life the premises from which a depressed person reasons significantly differ from the premises of a person who is not depressed. Besides, people may commit suicide when not clinically depressed - simply wanting to commit suicide is not sufficient to justify such a diagnosis, at least as far as I know.

Psychic

Actually no! a depressed person is not capable of rational thinking, his whole cognition process becomes distorted. it's like depression paints black every aspect of your brain. so depressed people are more likely to think of everything in their lives in a negative way and this gets them depressed even more and so on the cycle goes.
a depressed person has some cognitive distrotions as catasrophization, maximization, arbitatry inference, dichotomous thinking ... etc. their cognition is not to be trusted.
In addition of course to the basic premises he has about the self, about the people around, and about the future.

Buddrow_Wilson

I like to think of it as extreme reality. We're born, we die, we rot. What's the point?

Many of the things you list don't have to be associated with depression. Non-clinical depression results from many life events, but have what most would classify as rational origins.

I would argue its irrational to sugar-coat existence as this wonderful gift.

Or is that my chemical imbalance talking?

Psychic

Man you are so depressed that I could smell it!!

man you see the world as black as the tires of a jaguar stuck in some tar pool.

sugar-coat existence!
I know you wouldn't believe it: but life is pretty! it's sugar from inside and sugar from out side and sugar in between!

I know my last statement would sound like utter non-sense to you cause I've been there man, I've been there.

Look, First step: NEVER GIVE IN. look around you! see all those happy people? (If no, then you should change your neighborhood) there are many many people enjoying their lifes and it is POSSIBLE!
you have to know that: YOU'RE the one saying the world from the wrong perspective not them.
go to www.habitsmart.com and find those cognitive therapy pages.

natural selection bless you buddy.

Ice

It does, doesn't it? I was just wondering if this theory is flawed, and if so, where the flaw lies.

Buddrow_Wilson

No, I'm not that bad. I'm just very cynical and and don't find an extreme amount of joy in existence in general. I do, however, have a strong sense of curiosity that keeps me going. I also enjoy physical responses to various stimuli at times (laughter, sex, etc). Its not all that black for me. Perhaps gray as opposed to your pink.

I don't believe that my world view is any more or less valid than anyone else's.

I will admit that I have depressive tendencies that stem from a genetic predisposition. Because of this I find it difficult to feel that "general sense of well-being" that's all the rage these days. However, wouldn't someone who was opposite of me (annoying happy almost constantly) have an equally skewed outlook?

Don't worry, I'm not going to kill myself. My extreme episodes are few and far between (the worst was ages 13 - 22). I haven't taken any medications in over a year, and I feel better for it.

meritocrat

Suicide is a waste and is the resort of the cowardly. What suicidal people need is someone in order to discuss their problems.

Ice

Why would you call it a resort of the cowardly? Isn't it a matter of opinion whether it is more cowardly to off yourself or continue living what seems like a meaningless existence?