Ed

No, God allowed man to learn over a time that he needed a helpmate, then he rewarded him the perfect one made in His image, ie Woman.

Quote:

Ed: They are plainly implied in the Ten Commandments and women are entitled to all the dignity and respect given one created in the image of the King of Universe. wj: Riiiight, that's why they weren't allowed to divorce rapists. Rape, in case you are unaware, Ed, is sex without consent. Ed: They didn't marry rapists, see the verse about not mistreating captive women. jtb: As has been pointed out before, the verse says that the women WERE raped. Your interpretation of the phrases "humbled" and "mistreat" is clearly erroneous, because then the verse would make no sense: "thou shalt not mistreat her, because thou hast mistreated her".

No, a better translation would be "you shall not mistreat her, because you have already humbled her by killing her family."

Quote:

Ed: No, an expanse is a space, not solid matter. For example, "He built a bridge across the expanse." jtb: You definitely need to get a new dictionary. "Expanse" does NOT mean "a space, not solid matter". From www.mirriamwebster.com: Main Entry: ex·panse Pronunciation: ik-'span(t)s Function: noun Etymology: New Latin expansum, from Latin, neuter of expansus, past participle of expandere Date: 1667 1 : FIRMAMENT 2 : great extent of something spread out <an expanse of calm ocean> An expanse is a great, flat surface, like an ocean or a desert. Tanks are rolling across the expanse of the Iraqui desert.

Your definition says that it is SOMETHING spread out. Therefore the something can be space or air, so my statement stands.

Quote:

jtb: When you attempted to imply that there was a death penalty for rape, you lied. And I pointed out your lie. Now you're repeating the same lie. And everyone knows it. You still haven't explained WHY you keep lying like this. You're not fooling ANYBODY, Ed. So what's the point? You're just digging an ever-deeper hole for yourself.. Ed: No, the key phrase in this verse is "they are found out", this plainly implies that it was consensual. If it was rape, then it would have said "he was found out". You have yet to demonstrate I am lying. jtb: THe phrase "lay hold of her" rules this out. And so does the fact that consensual sex is specifically dealt with elsewhere. Of course "they" need to be found out! If a man is caught committing a rape, how can only HE be spotted?

No, even in consensual sex he has to lay hold of her. In a rape only HE is an acting party. In consensual sex THEY are acting parties.

Quote:

Ed: No, if it was rape she WOULD cry out, if it is consensual adultery then she would NOT cry out. And if it was rape then the rapist is executed. jtb: If it was ADULTERY the rapist is executed.

That too.

Quote:

jtb: Which "irrational ad hominems" are those? I have called you a liar, but that is simply a statement of fact. Perhaps Ross hasn't debated liars? Ed: Where you call me a liar without proving it. jtb: I have proved it, by providing examples.

What are you smokin?

Quote:

jtb: Why "new" Biblical studies? There are ALREADY Biblical studies which point to a local flood, such as that of Hugh Ross. But thank you for admitting that only BIBLICAL studies will change your mind: that SCIENCE means nothing to you. Ed: No, there needs to be evidence from both sources for a christian since both nature and the bible are God's communication to us. jtb: Very few Christians believe in Biblical inerrancy. And are you now saying that you won't believe ANY scientific knowledge unless it's in the Bible? You won't find any Biblical basis for the operation of transistors, or the existence of Uranus and Neptune. Or for round-Earthism or heliocentrism...

Dont be absurd, as I stated long ago the bible is not a science textbook. However what we learn about nature (science) can help us to interprete some biblical passages. Because nature is God's other book. The bible does not teach round earthism or heliocentrism and does not teach flat earthism or earthcentrism.
The bible is neutral on such things.

Quote:

jtb: There was no post made by you on February 14th (or any other date) in which you dealt with every single Biblical verse relating to the Hebrew cosmology and demonstrated that NONE of them teach a flat Earth.

Again, what are you smokin dude?

Quote:

jtb: You merely demonstrated your failure to comprehend the meaning of the word "expanse", and stated that Genesis 1:6-8 and Genesis 8:2 do not say that the Earth is flat (...so? This is clear from OTHER verses, THOSE verses refer to the FIRMAMENT DOME). So you are lying or hallucinating. No such post exists..[/i]

See above about the definition of expanse from your own dictionary.

lpetrich

Ed:
... God allowed man to learn over a time that he needed a helpmate, then he rewarded him the perfect one made in His image, ie Woman.

Except that:

* In Genesis 1, both sexes are created together, contrary to Genesis 2

* An omniscient being could easily figure out that one human being in isolation would be lonely

* This is sexist, as it implies that women exist only for the sake of men

Furthermore, we are a social species, and there is supposedly only one of God -- which means that we cannot be in the likeness of a naturally-solitary being.

Dont be absurd, as I stated long ago the bible is not a science textbook. However what we learn about nature (science) can help us to interprete some biblical passages. Because nature is God's other book. The bible does not teach round earthism or heliocentrism and does not teach flat earthism or earthcentrism.
The bible is neutral on such things.

Which makes me wonder if the Bible is also neutral on the occurrence of evolution or a planetwide flood.

Starboy

Gee Ed, if the bible is supposed to be gods other book it either has a favorite and it ain't the bible or someone has been cooking the books. Or perhaps the bible is fiction and nature is non-fiction?

Starboy

Ed

I never said that expanse was a metaphor. See above about the definition of expanse.

Quote:

ng: 2 Peter 3: 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. Perhaps Ed can answer this question. In 2 Peter 3:7 above why is heaven being destroyed when the stated objective is to destroy ungodly men? There are no unglodly men in heavens are there? Jesus also stated that heaven and earth will pass away (Mt24) The only way to make sense of this is the great big dome over the flat earth. You cannot destroy the earth without destroying the big dome which it supports.

No, since man's sin corrupts the entire universe (though not completely), the entire universe (heaven and earth) has to be destroyed and recreated as a new heavens and earth, see Revelation.

TealVeal

So what's god waiting for? Shesh I don't wait a week to clean up when I spill vanilla in the kitchen.

Ed

A law of logic that states that "Every effect requires a cause."

Quote:

sb: 2) What is "rationality"?

The use of logic to gain knowledge.

Quote:

sb: 3) How does the "Law of causality" demonstrate "rationality"?

The law of causality is a law of logic.

Quote:

sb: 4) And how does it demonstrate the "rationality of Christianity"?

Because it can be used to show that the Christian God is the cause of the universe and therefore exists. Thereby demonstrating that the fundamental belief of christianity is a rational and logical belief.

Quote:

sb: Oh and while you are at it, 5) What is Christianity?

Read the Nicene and Apostle's creed.

Quote:

sb: I ask these questions because I am not sure we are from the same galaxy let alone the same continent and I need to see if we have any common referents. Starboy

Well read and learn. You can learn even more by reading a good book on basic logic.

lpetrich

Ed:
No, since man's sin corrupts the entire universe (though not completely), the entire universe (heaven and earth) has to be destroyed and recreated as a new heavens and earth, see Revelation.

So there's a big unified entity named "man"? I didn't know that I was part of some great superorganism, that I was like a cell in some big body.

Furthermore, what evidence does Ed have for this alleged sin-corruption?

Ed also claims that there is a fundamental principle of logic, the "Law of Causality", which states that "every effect requires a cause." Which is trivial -- what makes something an effect?

NOGO

Another totally inadequate answer.

First Heaven is where God lives. So how can man corrupt heaven?

Second, 2 Peter compares this to the Noah story. In that story there is not even an implication that man corrupted heaven. But if man's sins corrupt heaven as you claim then why did God only destroy man, saving only Noah?

The idea that the entire universe = heaven + earth is laughable.
The earth is puny little planet in an insignificant solar system at the edge of one of millions of galaxies. The earth is in the heavens as you wish to read this. The earth is not an element apart from the heavens.

However, in the context of the bible the expression heaven and earth makes perfect sense. The heavens is the dome which separates water from water. This dome rests on a flat earth and contains the sun, moon and stars as Genesis says. From this we can understand the idea of "Heaven and earth". To the ancients Heaven and earth were equal elements of their universe. That is why 2 Peter says that heaven would have to be destroyed. He is talking about the dome over the earth.

Starboy

Well that clinches it. We are from different universes. In the one I come from causality has nothing to do with the laws of logic. Causality is considered to be a scientific principle that is open to confirmation or refutation. So it would not be considered to be a “Law”.
Again, different universes. In the one I come from the activity of gaining knowledge from logic would be called philosophy not “rationality”.
This is just a restatement of your answer to my first question. But it leaves me none the wiser. Now Ed, in my universe I have studied a great deal of logic, Mathematics, Science, Engineering and so forth so I am familiar with what I call logic. But because we are from different universes perhaps you could list a few of the “Laws of Logic” and demonstrate how they would be used in an argument?
Could you be so kind as to present the proof using your “Laws” of Logic?
I am familiar with those creeds however I fail to see how the creeds as definitions of Christianity connect with rationality or the “Laws of Logic”. Perhaps you could spell it out for me.
BTW Ed, FYI I am very educated. But I think you are full of sh*t, however I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and let you show me what you got. Bring it on Ed. Dazzle me with your knowledge of the “Laws of Logic”.

Starboy

Ed

Just as people can think they know a celebrity just by watching TV (superficially) so also some people only know God superficially.

In the case of speeding God uses His natural laws. In case of David he supernaturally tells him why his child died.


Huh? I don't understand your first comment. See above regarding superficial knowledge of God for your second comment.


The only way you could know this is if you are omniscient.

I never denied this, I only said that understanding it in context means that that was not the ONLY reason.


Umm... I am still waiting for you to meet my challenge of providing just one biblical scholar that agrees with your bizarre interpretation.

Fraid so, read John 3:16.

Faith in the true God is not safe or comfortable. Read about the apostle Paul's life.