agnawstick

When is the first recorded/acknowledged usage of Jesus being referred to specifically as Immanuel.

It is kind of a crappy prophesy if it means somebody calls you that after you are dead, or after they believe you are the messiah.

There were a lot of "messiah's" running around during the time. If to fulfill this prophecy, all one had to do was to get your followers to give you the nickname Immanuel, it really doesn't prove much.

Then again, I am kinda surprised all Jewish mothers didn't name their sons immanuel just in case.

Magus55

Jesus isn't "called" Immanuel as a proper name. Thats not its point. Jesus' proper name was Jesus. Immanuel was the prophecy in reguard to His title, that He would be God in the flesh. Which was fulfilled through Jesus being worshipped as God incarnate. Immanuel is not used in the way Jesus is, because its not meant to be a proper name - it denotes both His divinity and humanity. By proving to the people of the time that He was in fact God, through miracles, His ressurection and claims - Jesus fulfilled the prophecy because He was in fact ( according to the NT anyway, of course you all don't believe it) "God with us", which is what Immanuel translates to.

Soul Invictus

Magus55,

I could almost buy that argument except for a few problems. Assuming it is a figurative meaning, than there is nothing exclusive about someone being thought of as "God with us". If God were to operate within you, what distinction would Jesus have over you or any other prophet, preacher or one called by God? That stance is ambiguous and does nothing to give any especial exclusivity to make Jesus the Immanuel. That coupled with I'm not familiar of Immanuel being an operating term or title for someone, but a name with a meaning like most names.

Second, given the choice of text in Isaiah 7:14, I'd be hard-pressed to be persuaded that the intent is not to be literal in nature. Given, Immanuel means "God with us", the text states "His name shall be Immanuel", not He shall be God with us. Had it said this, I could yield a minor victory to you, (even though I'd still be compelled to say that there would be no exclusivity, as anyone could still be referred to as this figurative term.)

There is a fundamental difference in saying his name shall be God with us and saying He shall be God with us, which seems to be what you're arguing.

Magus55

Strong's for Emmanuel:

Emmanuel = "God with us"

1) the title applied to the Messiah, born of the virgin, Mt 1:23, Is. 7:14, because Jesus was God united with man, and showed that God was dwelling with man

Celsus

No you won't. I will. All participants, if you really must discuss these prophecies for the millionth time, please start a new thread. Since this thread has lost all focus on the OP, it is now locked. New threads are welcome on specific topics.

Joel
BC&H Moderator