Cicero

You have no exclusive right to the fruits of your labor. There is no such provision in the consitution, and neither shoulf there be, unless you advocate a return to barbarism.

meritocrat

In a simplistic sense (and not necessarily in a legal context) stealing can be taking something which does not belong to you. The money you earn from your job is YOUR property; not the state's.

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Taxation is constitutional (Article I, Sec 8, para 2; and amendment XVI), therefore it is legal, and not theft. To replace it with "user fees" would transform the republic into a corporation, essentially, which is about the worst form of government I can think of.

The 'worst' form of government I can think of is one which does not respect the rights of its citizens. Replacing taxation with user fees would not hinder the government in upholding its citizens basic rights.

meritocrat

How is the upholding of Lockean natural rights related to paying tax?

You cite liberty and property, well taxation violates both one's right to freedom and their property rights.

Cicero

Not according to the constitution. The founders understood that a republic works only so long as most people contribute. That would include taxation.

Yes it would. User fees are as ridiculous as communism. They simply would not work.

Without a reliable, fairly predictable income, how is the government supposed to maintain the military, the roads, etc?

Cicero

No, it does not. Taxation is constitutional, thus legal. Thus, it is not impinging on the rights outlined in the constitution, including the 9th amendment (as taxation is distinctly outlined in the consitution).

That dog won't hunt. It's like saying the government cannot compel your service.

Hubble head

I agree with taxes but "Trickle Down Theory" is a bad, bad joke on the lower and middle classes.

Try talking to that family farmer who lives out in the middle of no-where about what that road/postal/hospital/phone tax has become to them today. After their puzzled look wears off you'll probably gain a few new perspectives on why most farmers hate the federal Govt.

Besides, a good farming community knows it can take care of itself through its own self-determination of who needs what help. Bottom line, they are just on group grossly over-taxed.

This new tax cut is like trying to modify a car with a turbo charger when it's transmission is about to go out.

It is so deep that many states have already begun to make plans to increase their taxes so that programs they deem necessary for the stability and quality of life in their region are not shut down.

Since all the programs on the chopping block are for those on the bottom 3/4 of society I think we will see more of a wash and again the right will again find a reason to bludgeon the left.

The only ones who will be any better in the long run are the oligarchs, as we have no aristocracy left here. The few in east and west have been labeled as traitors and liberal scum and probably couldn't get a bunch of congressional aids to listen to them anymore.

Those who really carried human voices -the Kennedy's and Wellstone's always seem to end up dead.

meritocrat

I'm not American, but I wouldn't want a constitution that actively infringes on people's right to property.

Cicero

Name one that doesn't.

Taxation, as stated in my original post, is particularly justified in a system where the people govern (even if by proxy, as in a republic).

Roads need to be maintained.

The military needs to be finanaced.

Sanitation and clean water must be available.

Policing must be paid for.

Who, in a government by the people, is going to pay for these things?

The people, of course.

Hubble head

So who should collect all those said taxes? Many people in this country get hit high by the Feds only to get hit low by their state and then suffer a never ending torture of licence fees, registration fees, sales tax, property taxes, sin-taxes and so on.

Add up all the state, city, federal and misc. taxes you will come up with a stiffling number or percentage of your income that begs the question "Where in the F&^K did it all go????????"

And no, it is not all constitutional either but that document is proven to be nothing more than toilet paper to the politicos.

meritocrat

The constitution of my country does not advocate the state-sponsored stealing of property.