irishajo

These are just some personal anecdotes.

My great-aunt was diagnosed with cancer (melanoma). After treatment and a lot of prayer, the cancer disappeared (remission?). The general consensus in my family was that she had been healed. A few years later, it returned, attacked her brain, and she did not survive.

Another aunt was diagnosed with breast cancer. After a mastectomy, treatment and a lot of prayer, she recovered and is doing well (at least as far as the cancer issue).

Yet another aunt was diagnosed with gall bladder cancer. After treatment and a lot of prayer, she died.

My uncle had colon cancer. After surgery and treatment, he is doing well. Not sure how much prayer was involved, as it's my dad's side of the family.

My grandma was diagnosed with colon cancer. After surgery, treatment, and a lot of prayer, she recovered. Unfortunately, she has since been diagnosed with multiple myeloma.

My cousin (at 39 years old) was diagnosed with cancer. Not even sure where it started, as it was throughout his body. Probably colon. After much prayer, he died, leaving behind a wife and little girl.

One more example (not cancer related).

My grandfather had a stroke when I was a baby. He refused medical treatment, believing firmly in the power of god to heal him. He survived, but throughout my childhood continued to suffer mild strokes. He could barely walk or talk. I could rarely understand what he said because he would not seek any rehabilitation. When I was in the 11th grade he died.

I guess my point is that prayer never fixed anything in my family that medical treatment could and did. John 16:23 doesn't hold up in my personal experience.

[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: Walks the Fire ]</p>

E_muse

And much appreciated. Raising such issues can be painful.

And I think that this can be one of the most painful and difficult things - especially when others have experienced such remarkable recoveries.

My father (who was 64 when he died), started to experience prostate problems just before Christmas 1984. After surgery and a prolonged stay in hospital he came home but deteriorated rapidly - becoming something close to a skeleton. On March 28th 1985, he died.

My mother had lukaemia and experienced occassional remissions - however she was never 'well' of course. She received chemotherapy. Eventually she got pneumonia and died after a series of serious infections as her immune system broke down.

One of the friends I mentioned earlier, who knows of someone remarkably healed, lost his own father through cancer.

When my mother died I had become a Christian. I prayed and prayed for her but sensed that God didn't want to heal her and that I should let her go. As hard as this was I prepared myself in this way before she died.

Other Christians in my family were praying but refused to entertain the thought that we should die. They seemed in denial and seemed to be using God as means of avoiding the very real course of events.

When my mother eventually died I was completely at peace about the whole thing - albeit sad - whilst the others in my family fell apart.

It was a very difficult time.

Proxima Centauri

Well, Half-Life, I'm glad you've come back to us. I was worried about you. Your religious studies teacher seems to be giving you a lot of attention why has it happened? Coinicidence? Chance?

The religious people may want something from you in return. Is someone going to try and persuade you to become a Priest in the Roman Catholic Church? I hope not. Priests are often frustrated and miserable throughout their lives.

Here's a link to show you why many atheists think celibacy for Roman Catholic Priests and Nuns is very bad.

<a href="http://www.eclipse.co.uk/thoughts/celibacy.htm" target="_blank">http://www.eclipse.co.uk/thoughts/celibacy.htm</a>

I hope other folks on the 'Sec Web' will use this link as well. If you adult 'Sec Web' users know of any bright Roman Catholic youngster who is getting a lot of attention from the Church please warn him or her. If the youngsters like using the Internet please get them to see this link.

Sorry, this isn't about cancer but it may be very important that Half-Life reads the link.




[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: B.Shack ]</p>

Pomp

That's pretty off topic, B. Shack. Why don't you start a new thread?

Jamie_L

[QUOTE]Originally posted by E_muse:
I'm simply saying that, if such remissions are 'spontaneous' and nothing to do with religious conviction, then we should all be able to come up with similar examples.[QUOTE]

Not necessarily.

One problem with this notion. There are many, many, many more people who are religious than those who are not. I know one other person in real life who is an atheist, and I don't know him very well. I don't think any of the people I know who are religious know any atheists other than me - and most don't even know I'm an atheist.

My point being: it is VERY unlikely for me to know someone who both had cancer and was non-religious to the point of being unwilling to pray for recovery. It is even more unlikely for me to know someone with both those qualities who also had spontaneous remission (because that is rare among cancer patients). So, the notion that there there should be many stories out there about non-religious remission is erroneous. Not because remission is more likely among the religious, but because religious people so outnumber the non-religious.

Quantitatively, there will be many more spontaneous remissions among religious people, because there are so many more religious people. It's hard to determine from annecdotes if the rate among the religious as a percentage is the same as the rate among the non-religious.

Jamie