Mageth

He already did.

Evidence, please? Real, tangible evidence that god created anything? Or is that too much to ask?

And if he did it before, why can't he do it again as a demonstration? Heck, I might even believe in him if he'd do that.

Doubting Didymus

Happenstance could not create it. Evolution is not happenstance. This is important.

Mageth

I think that's preposterous, considering how pathetic our focussed efforts to produce AI have been. Why would anyone think happenstance would generate it?

Argument from ignorance, pure and simple.

Does your argument truly boil down to "It doesn't make sense to me" and "We haven't been able to generate AI yet, therefore it's preposterous to think that intelligence is an emergent property of the universe?" Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

Mageth

This is intellectual presumption beyond belief. You think you understand gravity because you know some of its effects, which is like thinking you understand cars because you can drive one.

He didn't mention gravity at all. Whether we understand gravity or not says nothing about how complex the underlying principles of gravity are. I suspect they're quite simple.

Mageth

Happenstance could not create it. Evolution is not happenstance. This is important.

Indeed it is.

yguy

Swell. When you KNOW they're quite simple, get back to me.

yguy

Until you provide some evidence that intelligence could arise from mere complexity, how is your own position based on anything but ignorant speculation?

So far the only reason you've given to believe intelligence is a naturally occurring product of complexity is your apparent belief that it could.

yguy

If it's not happenstance, then what is it? You figure there is intelligence guiding the process? If not, what's left?

Doubting Didymus

Do you genuinely want to know? If I supply you with a fairly short post I have written on this topic before, will you actually take the time to read it, or would I be wasting my time?

Mageth

Swell. When you KNOW they're quite simple, get back to me.

Until then you're going to assume they're complex, I guess. :banghead:

Until you provide some evidence that intelligence could arise from mere complexity, how is your own position based on anything but ignorant speculation?

You sure like the argument from ignorance, don't you?

I humbly submit myself as evidence that intelligence is an emergent phenomenon of the universe. Of course, in light of much of the human race and their superstitious ideas of an even greater intelligence that somehow just "is" or has to be because "I just can't understand how all this neat stuff came from nothin'", I may be wrong about intelligence even being present in the universe.

So far the only reason you've given to believe intelligence is a naturally occurring product of complexity is your apparent belief that it could.

And the fact that intelligence arguably exists in the universe, and the best hypothesis we have for it getting here, IMO, is as an emergent property of the universe (I don't believe in gods and such, remember?)

And I'm arguing against what - your apparent belief that it couldn't. I've seen you post nothing that indicates intelligence coudn't be an emergent property of the universe.

And this from the poster who earlier posted "Not even close, because it doesn't make sense to me."