Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bumble Bee Tuna · 01-22-2003, 08:48 AM

How do all you infidels decide whether to classify a group as a "cult" or as a regular religious group?
Do you call everything a cult? Call everything a religious group? If not, where do you draw the line? Number of members? Craziness of beliefs?

-B

seebs · 01-22-2003, 08:55 AM

The canonical distinction is stuff like "tries to separate you from non-members". It's actually very similar to the distinction between a normal boyfriend and an abusive boyfriend.

And yeah, I think technically some Christian churches are probably "cults".

Asha'man · 01-22-2003, 09:02 AM

At this point, I consider all religions to also be cults.

Psycho Economist · 01-22-2003, 09:44 AM

Seebs is right by the modern sense.

The original meaning was a religion whose rites could not be witnessed by or described to non-members. Occult means "hidden". Ancient cults (e.g. the temple of Dionisus) were proud of their secret-society status.

The definition got a little tighter when the word developed a negative connotation.

hezekiah jones · 01-22-2003, 09:54 AM

The canonical distinction is stuff like "tries to separate you from non-members."

You mean like this:

Quote:

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? - 2 Corinthians 6:14

There you have it, from the founder of the cult himself.

01-22-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Psycho Economist
Seebs is right by the modern sense.

The original meaning was a religion whose rites could not be witnessed by or described to non-members. Occult means "hidden". Ancient cults (e.g. the temple of Dionisus) were proud of their secret-society status.

The definition got a little tighter when the word developed a negative connotation.

The definition still exists that an occult recognizes the mysterious while a cult does not. This would make Catholicism and Judaism occults and the others, including witchcraft, just plain cults.

Toto · 01-22-2003, 10:27 AM

According to Frank Zappa, the difference between a religion and a cult is the amount of real estate you own. (Which makes Scientology an established religion.)

If this was a serious question, you should look at former-Moonie-turned-anti-cult-activist Steve Hassan's site

http://www.freedomofmind.com/

christ-on-a-stick · 01-22-2003, 10:51 AM

Read this somewhere (paraphrasing):

"A cult is just an unpopular religion and a religion is just a popular cult".

That pretty much sums it up for me!

HaysooChreesto! · 01-22-2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lamma
Cults make attempts to brainwash their members into not leaving.

When I say brainwash, I mean it in the most serious way. My parents admitted me into a cult in 1986 called Kids of El Paso. It was a place that promised miraculous solutions for parents of troubled teens. My parents had no idea of what they'd signed me up for.
The treatment methods employed by Kids of El Paso (a descendent of the Straight programs) were based on Chinese Communist methods employed on "patients" and POW's in the infamous internment camps of the 1950's. The Chinese methods were developed using Pavlov's experiments with dogs. For those who think that Pavlov did nothing more than make puppies salivate by ringing a bell, read up a little more.
If anyone wishes to get an idea of what a modern cult is or at least was in the 1980's visit www.kidsofelpaso.com I would also suggest hitting the link to the Anonymity Anonymous site. Lots of good info there.

The vast majority of Xtianity in America in no way resembles what a cult is. I see church goers as more of a cathartic support group. Kind of like getting a dose of philosophy and light head shrinking for the price of a tithe.
While I'm sure some ministers and priests will go knock on the doors of absent parishoners, they are few and far between.

Godless Dave · 01-22-2003, 11:38 AM

I draw a distinction between them, but it's a fuzzy one and can't be summed up in one sentence. I look at how much time is demanded of members and what happens to them when they don't show up for services; how much money is expected of members and what happens when they don't pay that amount; how they treat apostates; how much the organization interferes with the totality of the members' lives.

I don't see Christianity as a cult, but several denominations and sects of Christianity are. Some Mormon groups are more like cults then others - demanding money and harassing people when they try to leave. Church of Christ, Assemblies of God, and the Southern Baptists have a lot of cult characteristics, and I would characterize some (not all) churches in those denominations as full-blown cults.

In my opinion Scientology is for sure a cult. And they'll probably sue me just for saying that, the bastards.

01-22-2003, 08:48 AM	#1
Bumble Bee Tuna Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Middletown, CT Posts: 7,333	Cults vs. Religions How do all you infidels decide whether to classify a group as a "cult" or as a regular religious group? Do you call everything a cult? Call everything a religious group? If not, where do you draw the line? Number of members? Craziness of beliefs? -B

01-22-2003, 09:02 AM	#3
Asha'man Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: southeast Posts: 2,526	turtles all the way down At this point, I consider all religions to also be cults.

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01-22-2003, 08:55 AM	#2
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	The canonical distinction is stuff like "tries to separate you from non-members". It's actually very similar to the distinction between a normal boyfriend and an abusive boyfriend. And yeah, I think technically some Christian churches are probably "cults".

01-22-2003, 09:44 AM	#4
Psycho Economist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 854	Seebs is right by the modern sense. The original meaning was a religion whose rites could not be witnessed by or described to non-members. Occult means "hidden". Ancient cults (e.g. the temple of Dionisus) were proud of their secret-society status. The definition got a little tighter when the word developed a negative connotation.

01-22-2003, 10:27 AM	#7
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	According to Frank Zappa, the difference between a religion and a cult is the amount of real estate you own. (Which makes Scientology an established religion.) If this was a serious question, you should look at former-Moonie-turned-anti-cult-activist Steve Hassan's site http://www.freedomofmind.com/

01-22-2003, 10:51 AM	#8
christ-on-a-stick Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Durango, Colorado Posts: 7,116	Read this somewhere (paraphrasing): "A cult is just an unpopular religion and a religion is just a popular cult". That pretty much sums it up for me!

01-22-2003, 11:38 AM	#10
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	I draw a distinction between them, but it's a fuzzy one and can't be summed up in one sentence. I look at how much time is demanded of members and what happens to them when they don't show up for services; how much money is expected of members and what happens when they don't pay that amount; how they treat apostates; how much the organization interferes with the totality of the members' lives. I don't see Christianity as a cult, but several denominations and sects of Christianity are. Some Mormon groups are more like cults then others - demanding money and harassing people when they try to leave. Church of Christ, Assemblies of God, and the Southern Baptists have a lot of cult characteristics, and I would characterize some (not all) churches in those denominations as full-blown cults. In my opinion Scientology is for sure a cult. And they'll probably sue me just for saying that, the bastards.

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