fatherphil

why that's false advertising! who's selling it like that?

mike_decock

The problem is that accepting Christ as saviour is no more effective than any other "spiritual" placebo and in many cases, has a negative effect.

-Mike...

Bree

You obviously don't get the TeleEvangelist programmes.

fatherphil

bree, i may not be buying what they're selling. i also don't buy ronco products either

mike, there must be cases where it is beneficial.

brighid

It is entirely possible and likely that some theists find benefit from their religion and help with their marriage, but it appears that it is no better then any other method of psychological support. Christianity IS billed as the end all, be all, the Truth, the Light, and yadda, yadda. By definition it is suppose to THEE solution! Marriage is suppose to be a covenant before God (and not just A god, but thee ONLY God) blessed by and looked at by Him. Church members usually have to receive marriage counseling before the walk down the aisle and receive the Sacrament of Marriage, and the Church alleged magical powers as suppose to imbue it with something more then what the non-theist, or non-Christian could ever have because of the mere fact they aren't Christian.

So ... something is amiss when Christians who make up almost 90% of the US Population has a significantly higher divorce rate then atheists and agnostics. Furthermore, the numbers are not equal. Let's say there are 100 million Christians (probably an under estimate) and 10 million atheist/agnostics in this country. You do the math ... There are literally MILLIONS more Christians who divorce then atheists/agnostics. Now if the numbers were equal that difference would still be significant as hundreds of thousands more theists would divorce. There are millions more broken homes in Christian households. Millions more children suffering because of divorce. Millions more single Christian parents fighting the system to get adequate child support from their former, Christian spouse .... the implications are enormous.

That being said I do not think Christianity is wholly to blame. I think there are a number of significant factors, but those other factors are influenced by the doctrinal and cultural aspects Christianity is responsible for in those communities.

What I would also like to see is a comparison of people happy and fulfilled in their marriages between the groups, as oppossed to people still married. We all know plenty of people, some of who are our parents who stay in dysfunctional and destructive marriages because of their religious beliefs. I think that is even more telling then divorce rates amongst the different groups.

Brighid

Radorth

Atheist definition of "Christian" for our purposes here:

"Anyone who says so, including Adolf Hitler."

This whole thread is based on such gratuitous premises and contradictory thinking. If one is going to define a Chrsitian as a person having "fruit" then the thread is simply self-righteous double-talk.

Oh wait. It's Friday, so the lack of "fruit" some atheists like to point out is not a factor. Gotta love such "rational thinking."

Rad

Daggah

In that case, Radorth, Christianity is the single least ineffective philosophy/theology the world has ever seen in its history. Very few of its adherents actually manage to become true Christians, making it useless at keeping people good and righteous.

You lose either way.

(I also find it interesting that, back in the days where Radorth was regularly trounced at CSS debates, and arguing about what the founding fathers believed, his definition of Christian was considerably looser than it is now. Interesting, no?)

brighid

Radorth,

Whatever is your problem? The statistics come from those people who classify THEMSELVES as Christians, whatever brand that may be. It isn't atheists classifying Christians as Christians in an attempt to discredit them. The Barna Group is a CHRISTIAN group run by Christians, and this is where the information comes from.

Brighid

mike_decock

This discussion is based on research published by Barna Research Group, a Christian organisation which provides "Strategic Information You Can Trust". If anything, the data is more likely to be biased in favor of Christians.

To accuse us of using an "atheist definition" is a pitiful denial of the facts.

-Mike...

AquaVita

As has been mentioned, I really feel that the problem with many religious relationships, is the refusal to live together for a bit, before committing for life. To me, it just makes more sense, in every way to give it a try before you "buy" so to speak.