Metacrock

Meta=> Ok it's real important to get an answer on this. [b][i]where does your source on this come from? Becasue it's probably coming form a mther book, which will distrot the original.

Secondly, was Electra a vrigin? In what sense? often these guys will call the woman a "virigin" becasue she hasn't been with a mortal, but they assume that God and Mary had a sexual union and they did not! So just having sex with a god doesn't count as virigin birth.

4. Ancestor of the Dardanians, and Romans thru Aeneas

5. Iasius means "Healer" (and is very similar to Iesous)


Meta =>I can't help but be skeptical, because it looks like some Myther book is trying to make that name seem close to the name Jesus. But there is no similarity at all. There is no connection between the Greek word for healer and the name Jesus. Jesus is just anglocized from Iaesou, which is Greekized from the Hebrew Yeshua. It means "Y is salvation." Has nothing to do wtih healing.

6. Killed by lightning Zeus' bolt (or by brother Dardanus)

8. Rose to the circle of the Gods :
"And after Iasion had been removed into the circle of the gods, Dardanus and Kybele and Korybas conveyed to Asia the sacred rites of the Mother of the Gods " Diodorus Siculus, Book 5, Ch 49, 2


Meta => that's not resurrection form the dead in the Jesus sense. Jesus actually returned to living human life.

9. Leader-in-Chief of the Mysteries :
"But Zeus desired that the other of his two sons (ie Iasion) might also attain to honor, and so he instructed him in the initiatory rite of the mysteries, which had existed on the island since ancient times but was at that time, so to speak, put in his hands; " Diodorus Siculus Book 5, Ch 47, 3
"and they give the name "Iacchus" not only to Dionysus but also to the leader-in-chief of the mysteries, who is the genius of Demeter (Iasion)" Strabo, Book 10, Ch 3, 10


It's real important to know your sources

Metacrock

ahahah excellent, thank you! I'm betting that guy's source is a myther book.

JERDOG

Jesus walks on the water just as the Greek god Poseidon rides his chariot over the water.

Jesus changes water into wine just as the Greek god Dionysius,

These stories really are adopted then and adapted to the figure of Jesus. Just because some things are differnat does not mean that they were exculsive to j/c.

Also, but not realted directly to j/c.
The pagans burned the unuseable portions of their meat for the gods.
Read leviticus and you will see the xian god is all about wanting loads and loads of burned flesh.

Metacrock

Look, you are committing an informal fallacy known as "argument form sign." That means that you observe there is a sign of something, two things are similar, therefore, one caused the other. But you dont' have a cause, you just have the sign. That's a fallacy.

The point of all this is to show that Jesus of Nazerath existed as a man. I'm not interested in defending Biblical inspiration. I'm not interested in defending the diety of Christ. I'm only concerned with the argument that Jesus existed as an historical figure.

The things you bring out above are unimporant, because they do not impendge upon Jesus existing as a man. They may or may not impendge upon Divine revelation in the Bible. But they have nothing to do with Jesus' historical existence.

The real problem is in your assumption that if two ancient world religions use the same elments one must be a copy of the other. that does not follow. All ancient world people made offerings to their deities So what? They thoguht it was a good idea to sacrafice meat to their Gods. That doesn't prove that one copied the other. It only proves that this idea occurs to people all over the place.

the same with walking on water. It's a miracle. People believed in miracles. Big deal. Moreover you are also ignoring the concept of archetypes. so even if similarites exist that doesnt prove anything.

But the improtant thing, which no one has even challenged on this thread, the dying rising savior gods are all exaggerated.

JERDOG

We shall see. I will go to a library and search greek gods and read. You act as if your information cannot be erronious while everyone else that dissagress with yours is.

GakuseiDon

"Just as"??? LOL! I like a man with a good sense of humour. You missed the bit where Poseidon's disciple starts to doubt, and he and his chariot starts sinking into the water.

So, the closeness of the words "horse" and "house" indicates that at some time in the past, people used to live in horses?

Excellent. I did that myself when I started reading these types of threads. The more I read, the more convinced I was that these "similarities" simply weren't there. Warning - it is addictive! Good luck.

Butters

This is all well and good, but the real evidence of Christians borrowing from other religions lies not in the pagan literature, which has been mostly destroyed by Christians, but in the Christian writings themselves. Early church writings include rebuttals of the idea. But do they deny the similarity of the religions? No, they claim that the earlier religions were planted by Satan to confuse people when the "true" religion came along. So it is useless to deny that Christianity doesn’t contain many of the same ideas , doctrine, and rituals of earlier religions, Christians themselves admitted this.

JERDOG

Lots of people were named Jesus back in that time. And the romans crossed lots of people for all sorts of reason. So was a guy named jesus hung on a cross? Yes. There wee probably hundreds of guys named jesus hung on a cross by the romans.


So its just mear coinsidence that god wanted burned meat too huh?


We know when Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, ect ect wer born. We know when and where they died. They all existed and died long before j/c was thought to have come about. But can anyone explain to me why the man who is supposed to be the most important person born on earth, is not known and is highly debated where and when he was born?

Archetypes? Are you claiming that god experimented with prototypes of j/c?

You sure like to have a lot of "proof" don't you? It's strange how a mystic wants proof when it is to their benefit, but rejects the notion of proof when it is not to their benefit.

Their is this thing called circumstantial evidence. No one here is claiming that this would be proof that would stand in a court of law. But then again, Rob Goldmans blood in OJ's truck was not enough proof for OJ's guilt.

Keep asking for court room style proof. But next time someone ask you for proof of your claim/s, you better not be a hypocrite and tell them that it is not needed.

JERDOG

Good point. Lots of these claims that x-ians make often times puts them at odds with other x-ians that would just as vigoursly agrue their side.

JERDOG

Yea! So why not change the story up because our god and messiah is soooo much better than theirs!! Ours actulay makes it across the water guys!!


That doesn't even make any sense.

Just because the Voltswaggen was the first car to use fuel injection, does not mean that it was the first car ever.

"Our god walked on the water, he didn't sink like the other guy in the charriot did. So that means that the jesus story was in no way borrowed or inspired by the charriot story. Because it has one twist to it!!" LOL!!

Imagine you were a bank teller and a guy wearing black pants, black shirt and a black ski mask robed you. Then latter you saw a guy that was of the same build with the black shirt and pants but no ski mask. Now are you telling me that you would not suspect that this was the same guy?

Using your reasoning it could not possibly be. The guy doesn't have on a black ski mask!