Hawkingfan

There are actually more quotes on the subject than what you have mentioned. Unfortunately, they contradict each other. For instance, in Acts 5:29 it says to obey God and not men. But in Romans 13:1-4 and 1 Peter 2:13-15 it says to obey the laws of men (i.e., government) and that every government in the world has been set up by God (paraphrase courtesy of Donald Morgan at the Secular Web Modern Library). This would suggest that it would be wrong to rebel against Nazi Germany and Colonial America (slavery).

spurly

Hawkingfan, thanks for the reply. The verses that you mentioned are definitely in the Word. Romans 13 says that we are to submit ourselves to the governing authorities that are over us. 2 Peter 2:13-15 also states that we are to submit ourselves to the governing authorities. As Christians, we are to do that wherever and whenever we can. Speed limits. Don't murder. Don't steal. Don't perjure yourself, etc.

But there is one principle that is higher - that when the laws of our country contradict the principles of God, we follow God and not man. We can see that in the life of Christ where he broke the laws the religous leaders set up that were in contradiction with what God intended. When he rebelled, his rebellion was against earthly rulers who had walked away from God.

Peter, taking his cue from the best one to take his cue from, said the same thing in Acts, "we must obey God rather than men". All the time, no. Just when the two are in conflict with each other. These verses do not contradict each other at all, as you have suggested that they might.

Kevin

HelenM

I agree

Helen

Meanoldman

Believing in god. Not a new question. I have wondered about that quite a bit. There are some theists who can proclaim a belief in a vague supernatural all-encompassing power that is simply improvable. The problem for them becomes – if it does exist, so what, it has no effect on our lives anyway.

The more specifically the supreme entity is defined, the more the probability of its existence declines. The smaller the probability, the greater the burden on the believer. Why would anyone carry this burden? There are some reasons that I can come up with. Punishment and reward, the price that one has to pay for abandoning their beliefs becomes too great, and the benefits for retaining them are too good to throw away. Given the right circumstances, anyone can be led to believe anything. Not just play along, actually believe. Then there are cases that go beyond the basic “Skinner box” believer.

We see people commit suicide, murder, go to prison, get locked up in the booby hatch, lose their jobs and families, etc. in preference for maintaining their beliefs. People don’t do this on a maybe, only an absolute guarantee that the belief is correct can provoke this kind of behavior. When the retention of the belief gets to that extent then it is severe mental disorder.

Those who will not walk out in front of a car believing that god will save them, yet still maintain a strong belief that the almighty being is real will always be able to come up with excuses. That is because they do suppress information that renders the belief invalid. This is a lesser form of delusion, but still delusion. The vast majority of god believers do believe, and they will hang on to that belief as long as there is some incentive to do so.

Devin

Synaesthesia

I like the darwin awards not because they represent the occurance of very powerful genetic selective pressues. The true power of the awards is the death and destruction of memes.

Biff the unclean

I was working at a place once where the secretary refused to get the brakes on her car fixed because it would show a lack of trust in Jesus. I told her that I thought that that was crazy. But she had proof that Jesus was watching out for her. Her husband worked in a machine shop and never worn safety glasses. Three times, while he was grinding parts, he got steel splinters in his eyes YET HE NEVER WENT BLIND. Jesus had protected him.

I retain my original opinion.

lpetrich

This reminds me of the belief that used to be common that ringing church bells would repel lightning:

Vivos voco
Mortuos plango
Fulgura frango

I call the living
I mourn the dead
I break the lightning

-- written on some church bells.

But that only got bell-ringers struck by lightning and killed.

Odemus

I know that lately I have been going through a crisis of faith and I haven't a clue how to work it out. All I know is that if I conclude that this life is all there is I will probably end up totally hopeless.

Thor Q. Mada

Odemus,

Go to plan B. Conclude that this life is all there is. Trust me , it is worth living, and you can be a good, fullfilling and caring person without a imaginary deity backing you up, or without looking forward to a life after death. And by the way, who wants to live forever. See your children growing-up, continuing your genetic line, see them having children (not too many though) and finally put your head down in peace, because you have done a good job. What more can you want?? Singing psalms next to the lord at eternam?? Sounds stupid isn't it?? Well that's because it is stupid.

Vorkosigan

You and I really must get seriously toasted together some day.