MzNeko

Two words: Cosmo Magazine


Okay, that was the silly, pat answer. Now for the serious one...

I can only speak for the particular subset of American culture that I'm part of, really, but I don't recall being told while growing up that I wasn't supposed to be assertive about what I want. My husband isn't too shy about it either.

I know there are still some groups of people in this country that think women/men/everybody shouldn't enjoy sex, but at the same time, you can't enter a bookstore (or even a grocery store checkout line) and NOT find titles like "50 Ways to Make Her Wild for You!", "10 Tricks That Will Make Him Yours Forever", "How to Satisfy Him/Her Completely" "How to Help Him/Her Satisfy You Completely". You can also find more serious works about how couples can explore erotically together.

And these aren't things that are hard to find, or restricted access (except for age maybe), you can find them just about anywhere.

Not that I mind, of course...

So it seems to me that, yes indeed, women (and men) are encouraged to find out what they like, and tell their spouse about it, too.

At least in some of the cultures that practice FGM, that doesn't seem to be the case. And there seems to be an awful lot of emphasis on "woman as property" still going on, which doesn't really seem to encourage much free inquiry as far as "What makes me feel good? Would you do this, honey?" kind of things go...

But maybe that's just the impression I get.

And as for MGM or FGM, I think it certainly ought to be up to the adult individual to decide whether or not to cut off any of their body parts.

[ October 23, 2002: Message edited by: MzNeko ]</p>

Primal

Amen I think you are really stretching credulity when you say that MGM and FGM are comparable. Leading scientists like Jared Diamond have commented against the destructice and barbaric practices of FGM and in no way compare it to MGM. Though I think both are bad, FGM is much worse, as it's affects are far more drasitic. Look at why it's done: so that the female doesn't cheat on her husband. Basically removing pleasurable feelings experienced during sex is the reason why it's done. That is not the reasom MGM is done. Other cultures, even worse, tie the vagina shut. Nasty sexist crap. Saying that it's ok for a women to experience that since she "consents", as if she has much choice in her society is like saying it's ok for the husband to beat her or chop of her nose if she fails to press charges.

Oh yeah and as for orgasism being "in the mind" keep in mind that the mind and anatomy are strongly linked. Why don't you try having an organism by watching "sexy pictures" and engaging your imagination as opposed to actually wanking off. Or even betterm next time you are hungry imagine you just ate a big dinner instead of eating and see how satisfying it is. You simply put too much faith in the idea of "mind over matter" and the power of positive thinking it seems.

Megusic

Greetings,

not much time tonite, but i wanted to comment on dreamer_87's reference to "many medical benefits" and cancer. i do not have references at this time (bedtime) but i will try to find some soon. There have been numerous studies on the supposed benefits of male circumcision. While many tests are contradictory, many do indicate that there may be a small link between intact foreskin and Urinary Tract Infection and possibly some forms of cancer. However, the percent of population that this link occurred in was very very small (again, i will get numbers soon). The chance of me getting breast cancer is far greater than the chance of an intact baby boy getting a UTI, but I'm not about to get a masectomy as a precotionary measure!

sorry for such a vague post, but i've got an exam to study for and lots of sleep to catch up on!!

peace,
megusic

Amen-Moses

Yes they don't get cancer of the foreskin!

My mother has cancer in her toes and has so far has to have two removed maybe if we chopped toes of at birth that would reduce that kind of cancer as well!

Amen-Moses

Ut

Indeed, the position of American, British, Canadian, Australian, etc. Pediatrics Association is that the medical benefits of circumcision (if any) are outweighed by the risks inherent to surgical intervention.

EDIT: Also, UTIs can be easily prevented by bathing. And if your child does get an UTI anyway, a simple antibiotics treatment is all that is needed.

[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: utbabya ]</p>

Dreamer_87

'i've got an exam to study for and lots of sleep to catch up on!!'

Goodluck on the exam!!

Looking forward to your post,
Dreamer

Megusic

Thanks Dreamer!

Taking a little study break , and found some literature you might want to check out:

<a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/legal/richards/" target="_blank">http://www.cirp.org/library/legal/richards/</a>
and <a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/legal/brigman/" target="_blank">http://www.cirp.org/library/legal/brigman/</a> (which is linked in the first one)
(sorry i don't know how to make a link so you'll have to copy and paste into your browser)

One our until test time...more later

Meg

Arrowman

In relation to the OP: I think the discussion so far has illustrated fairly well that unless one takes a very "generous" or charitable view of female circumcision, and a very "uncharitable" view of male circumcision, it is clear that female circumcision is quantitatively different (more severe) from male circumcision.

One does not have to see male circumcision as "perfectly OK" to take a more severe attitude to female circumcision.

Now to the fun stuff.... I agree. I do however think that orgasm is a more "mental/emotional" process for women, and "hang-ups" or whatever can come in to play. Men who realise that can either (a) pay attention to the atmospheric and emotional aspects (and timing) as much as the physical, or (b) use it as an excuse for their failure to satisfy.

Also, while you are right that men need to "work at it" perhaps more than they do - it really helps if a woman isn't afraid to give directions. Just as men need to realise that all women are different and the "one approach suits all" attitude won't work, so women need to realise that all women are different - and the man they are with doesn't necessarily know what to do for her - without help.

People who talk with each other generally have better sex than those who don't The TV/Hollywood image of strangers having instant hot orgasmic sex in a broom closet five minutes after they've met is a myth. Yes we do know, and we do respect it But seriously - I think it's pretty much a given that men get off easier than women. But the payoff for a woman can be a more extended and satisfying experience. For a man, the almost consistent equation of ejaculation with orgasm can be a pain. IMHO the G-spot (or the A-spot for that matter) exists physically with most women but that doesn't necessarily mean "instant orgasm". Again, it's a matter of (mutual) technique. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying "all women can do this; you (or your partners) just aren't doing it right" - just that, well, I don't think it's necessarily as rare, or beyond reach, as people might think. Agreed. Except in positions which facilitate clitoral stimulation, of course. Women do seem to enjoy the additional sensation of penetration, but that's just a bonus over a clitoral orgasm which could have been achieved by other means. (IMHO some women enjoy intercourse only, or mainly, because of the pleasure of watching their partner get off rather than any terrific vaginal sensations; for their own pleasure they're just as happy with an orally- or manually-stimulated orgasm.) That's not necessarily because the G-spot doesn't exist - it's because the shagging technique is all wrong. The way to hit the G during intercourse is via gentle and shallow intercourse, not deep thrusting. The A, on the other hand, needs deeper but still gentle attention (and usually a different position). Hard, vigorous, deep thrusting is useless except for the man's pleasure, unless it also happens to (quite coincidentally) put the occasional bit of contact on the clitoris.

Again, the TV/Hollywood image (of vigorous, deep-thrusting shagging in the missionary position filling her with outrageous ecstasy)does both men and women no favours at all.

[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: Arrowman ]</p>

lunachick

Holy smoke! I'd hate to be without my clitoris; it's my favourite body part.

And Arrowman: The way to hit the G during intercourse is via gentle and shallow intercourse, not deep thrusting. The A, on the other hand, needs deeper but still gentle attention (and usually a different position).

Will you go to bed with me?


As I see it, MGM is about hygiene and 'looks'.

FGM is about controlling womens sexuality. If she doesn't derive much pleasure from sex, she will be less likely to stray. Womens sexuality is sinful and the root of all evil. The whores of Babylon.

Remove that apple from the garden, and men can leave their wives unattended and not fret about what they may be up to with a boy-next-door. FMG is about mens fear of women, as I understand it.

Arrowman

Oh, all right But I can't promise anything - what I wrote might have sounded like "this is what happens to me all the time" but in fact it has been a rare treasure. Very real, but rare.

I'm willing to broaden the experimental base, however...