Kevin Dorner

Randman wasn't up to the challenge. Just as a demonstration how someone can be closed-minded at will: Prove to me the sun exists. Although that in itself have nothing to do with evolution, the methods and memes of denial and pretending certainly do have relevance to the application of same to pretending that scientific theories are religions.

Is chemistry a religion because it displaced alchemy (which was considered divine)?
Is medicine a religion because it displaced exorcism?
Is astronomy a religion because it displaced crystal spheres and planetary angels?
Is geography a religion because it displaced the biblically-described flat earth covered by a dome-shaped heavens supported by four pillars?

Then neither is evolutionary biology a religion for displacing "divine" special creation. If you want to claim that it is, claim the same for the other four.

Thanatos

Here lies the crux of the problem - someone wrote, "Evolution (common ancestry/tree of life/descent with modification) is about as close to a "fact" as we can get, IMO...Thus I hold evolution as a fact...".

If evolution is a fact, I have a problem with my evolution as a philosophy argument. However, since I don't regard evolution as a fact, and since I see science refuting evolution - I don't have a problem claiming evolution to be philosophical.

wdog

Thanatos:

May I call you tostitos? jk

Evolution may be called a philosophy, but not a religion. What sets apart well accepted scientific theories from just any old religion or or philosophy is that they have been shown useful in giving us an understanding of nature that we can use. Whether you like it or not, you also accept these theories simply because we have no alternative. Whenever you start your computer or get medicine from a doctor, you also have a 'faith' that science works (if you don't think so, then visit your nearest Jamaican witch doctor for your next illness). It is actualy a deeper faith than most scientists have in that we are constantly attacking the theories to overturn or modify them for something better. Does your church do that with your religion?

Evolution is born of the same scientific process that gave us all our well accepted scientific theories, it is about as close to fact as you can get as it ranks very high on the scale of credibility among scientific theories.

Religion offers us nothing in tersm of giving us meaningful and useful descriptions of nature. If I am mistaken then please give me one well accepted scientific theory that your religion has provided, or name me one piece of modern technology built with the guidance provided by your bible.

I just read you last post. Please show us all how evolution has been refuted in the scientific community, it will be big news.

[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Optics Guy ]</p>

Kevin Dorner

I might claim the sun's existence as philosophical, but then comes the problem when I try to tell others that something is wrong with them for proving otherwise.

Newton's "Principia Mathematica Philosophiae Naturalis" translates as "Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy." So not only is universal gravitation a theory, but also a philosophy. Does this make it any less true, valid, predictive, scientific, tested, and applicable? Does calling the theory of evolution a "philosophy" do the same, or is it the classic definition of "straw man" whereby one calls something other than what it is in order to belittle it?

{edit: typos}

[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]</p>

Thanatos

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Optics Guy:
[QB]Thanatos:

Religion offers us nothing in tersm of giving us meaningful and useful descriptions of nature.

I love the naivety of the above statement.

<a href="http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml" target="_blank">Check this out!</a>

Mageth

I glanced at that site and saw "dinosaurs are mentioned in the bible." Scrolling down revealed more such ridiculous content. Don't waste our time.

Besides, if anything on that page is actually a scientific fact, all it would illustrate is that some man knew that fact and wrote it down in a book centuries ago. It is not an answer to Optics Guy's statement:

"Religion offers us nothing in terms of giving us meaningful and useful descriptions of nature."

Clutch

My favourite was this bit: Hey, did you get that? All stars look alike to the naked eye! Wonderful, wonderful stuff.

[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Clutch ]</p>

hezekiah jones

Evolution is neither religion nor philosophy:

Ergo, evolution is a cult.

[Damn UBB code - yet another soul destroying cult.]

[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: hezekiahjones ]</p>

nogods4me

We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden

By the time I got to Woodstock
They were half a million strong
Everywhere there was song and celebration

I dreamed I saw the bombers
Riding shotgun in the sky
Turning into butterflies above our nation

We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden


***sigh*****
those were the days

Mageth

If only I could remember them...