Autonemesis

What is "spiritual knowledge" and how is it different from knowledge of the not-spiritual variety? What I am asking is whether "spiritual knowledge" is a sub-class of all knowledge, or a different class of knowledge altogether.

If it's a different class of knowledge, that's all well and good, but could you call it something else, like spiritual intuition or something like that? I don't see the benefit to conflating this other kind of "spiritual knowledge" with actual knowledge.

Tercel

Aren't you simply confusing our ability to discern the difference between two things with the actual difference between to things?

Because we could not discern the difference between cause and effect ourselves without time does not of necessity mean that no difference exists without time.

Unless of course you hold to the opinion that things only exist as far as they are discernable by us?!?

HRG

I'm sure you have heard the expression "identitas indiscernibilium".

Since "cause" and "effect" are terms of the language that we have coined to describe the universe, we'd better include a difference between the definitions of those two worthies; otherwise one becomes superfluous.

The only difference is their sequence in time.

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Unless of course you hold to the opinion that things only exist as far as they are discernable by us?!?[/QUOTE]

The difference is so small as to be practically invisible. Do you entertain the possibility that the planets may be pushed around by djinns which are not discernable by us ? Or that all electrons are either Democrats or Republicans, but the difference is not discernable by us ?

Sorry for the heavy satire, but it was irresistible!

Regards,
HRG

Philosoft

I can picture Jesus just fine, though I imagine the popular depiction of Jesus is mostly inaccurate. You shouldn't presume what I'm interested in. I'm deeply interested in picturing God. I just can't do it.

<strong> Actually, what I resist is your assertion that I need to reverse my tried-and-true knowledge-gathering process in this one instance.

<strong> Really got to hand it to God, eh? He creates a specific way of gathering knowledge and forming beliefs and then, when we come to the most crucial piece of potential knowledge, we are to consciously discard the entire process in favor of blind faith. Forgive me if I remain unmoved by God's generosity.

Mageth

A person cannot gain spiritual knowledge about God unless they first acknowledge that there is a God that they can gain spiritual knowledge from.

Since god is purportedly spiritual, doesn't acknowledging god entail "spiritual" knowledge? Chicken or egg?

What you're saying, IMO, is similar to "if you lack belief in something, just have faith and then you can believe it." I call this the Tinkerbell argument.

St. Robert

Kind Bud,

I would contend that spiritual knowledge is a super-class of knowledge rather than a sub-class.
Spiritual knowledge is above carnal or instinctual knowledge like wisdom is above intellect.

The carnality of man prevents him from attaining true spiritually without God. When man accepts God as God and man as man, he can move towards true spiritual knowledge and reliable wisdom, which God alone can provide.

Samhain

Where has the reliable wisdom attained by spiritual knowledge been presented to us thus far in history? I've a feeling that I'll be coming back to this thread...

Autonemesis

So knowledge, as the word is ordinarily used, is a sub-class of spiritual knowledge.

But because it is a super-class, spiritual knowledge includes carnal knowledge, instinctual knowledge, etc. That is what "super-class" means. Do you still maintain that carnal knowledge, scientific knowledge, etc. are all sub-classes of spiritual knowledge? This is quite a new viewpoint you are espousing, I want to make sure I understand it.

St. Robert

Philosoft,

If you want to have an image of God, I would sincerely suggest that you go to a Catholic church and intently look upon a crucifix.

I sense that your desire to picture God is great. The crucifix is a concrete image of God, which demonstrates his great love for you. The gospels are also very descriptive and would be helpful in your request to picture God.

If you don't care to look with wonderment upon a crucifix or read the gospels, then ask God himself for a vision of who he is. If you ask with a sincere heart, God will be faithful to your desire to see him.

In terms of acknowledging God and receiving from him, it's kinda like this: Suppose someone came to your home and offered you a billion dollars for nothing in return. You could respond two ways.

1. Not believe the person offering the money, because to you the offer was too good to be true.

2. Believe the person, because you have nothing to lose and a billion dollars to gain.

Because we live in an age of skepticism, many people would chose the first response and not receive the riches.

St. Robert

Kind Bud,

Sorry if I misled you. Knowledge has two major categories: knowledge of the spirit and knowledge of the flesh.