Animesh

One thing that always bothered me, and I'm sure it's been mentioned before.

3 days in Hell.

He died Friday evening. He was reborn Sunday morning. That isn't even 2 days, according to my flawed-and-tainted-by-the-original-sin calculations.

NOGO

What is flawed is the idea that blood is required to get sins forgiven.

In the OT they used animal blood for this purpose. Christians needed better than that. Not just human blood, not just royal blood but divine blood. Just read Hebrews 9 and it will all become clear.

One point that was raised is what does Jesus' death have to do with me today. The answer is of course, nothing. However reading Hebrew 9:25-26 you will see that the Jesus sacrifice was intended to be the last and ultimate sacrifice before the imminent end of the world.

[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: NOGO ]</p>

FOGuy

Jesus was raised ON the 3rd day (1Cor 15:3-8) not AFTER 3 days. He dies Friday (1), stays dead Saturday (2) and rises on Sunday (3). This is sometimes rendered as "IN 3 days" (Jn 2:19-22). You must be careful of this trap. These phrases are interchanged frequently which leads to confusion.

As I read through your responses I see you all touch on the spiritual truths contained within this little story yet you fail to recognize them for what they are because you are trying to apply them to a physical realm. Some examples:

Sineater:

Peteyh:

Sineater has outlined the glyph for the cycle of life that the soul experiences.

Peteyh has identified the place where it occurs: the "cross" of the material body. Not on a cross of wood. That IS silly. Although 'wood' is a glyph for matter.

Glyphs, glyphs, glyphs.....that's all the Bible is front to back. Christ's 3 days in 'Hell'(hell = body), Jonah's 3 days in the whale - exactly the same. Moses' 40 years in the desert, Christ's 40 days in the wilderness - exactly the same. Noah's 40 days of rain and 120 days (3x40) in the ark. (ark = seed). The numbers 3 & 40 are glyphs for the incubation time of the soul in matter. The wheat grain in Egypt was said to sprout 40 days after the innundation of the Nile; the human fetus gestates for 40 weeks. These are all glyphs for spiritual truths - NOT physical or historical truths. Truths that can't be explained using words or terms from the physical realm. Confusion reigns when you try (see above responses again!). So close yet so far.

diana

FOGuy,

Have you met Amos yet?

You seem to be kindred spirits.

We should instead apply them to a "spiritual realm," I take it. I also take it that "spiritual realm" is conveniently characterized by a complete lack of need to adhere to anything we know from experience or the rules of logic.

That's quite an assertion you've got there. The bible is full of things that cannot be explained using words or terms from the physical realm, and confusion reigns when we try? I've just read your examples, and I'm still confused. It still doesn't make any sense.

How's your way better? And how do you support your theory? Inquiring minds want to know.

d

winstonjen

This was someone else's response to me on another forum:

he KNEW how long the pain would last
-Alright, I will give you that he knew how long the pain would last.

which would make it much easier to endure.
-This part makes me laugh. Try going in for chest surgery sometime, they tell you it will hurt more then anything before in your life and it does, but that didn't make it easier to take. I know this from experience so yeah.

Also, isn't it a bid absurd for God to sacrifice himself TO himself, in the form of Jesus?
-Jesus is the son of god, not god himself.

Also, a sacrifice implies that you're not going to get it back, but Jesus DID get his life back, so how is that a sacrifice?
-He came back for a short time, so I really don't think he got his life back, its more like one last visit. Or it could be more like an expression, sorta like pop a cap. It means something different then what it really is defined as.

This was a stupid statement that didn't have a lot of thought put into it. Next time someone posts something like this they might want to bone up a bit before hand.

And this is how I responded:

This part makes me laugh. Try going in for chest surgery sometime, they tell you it will hurt more then anything before in your life and it does, but that didn't make it easier to take. I know this from experience so yeah.


With chest surgery, you can't comphrehend it because you don't know the exact pain, and neither does the doctor. Jesus, being omnipotent (or so it says), would know how much it would hurt, even before he had to endure it.

-Jesus is the son of god, not god himself.

The bible also says that he has the authority of God, and is part of the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Ghost), and that he is also the same as God.

-He came back for a short time, so I really don't think he got his life back, its more like one last visit. Or it could be more like an expression, sorta like pop a cap. It means something different then what it really is defined as.

This was a stupid statement that didn't have a lot of thought put into it. Next time someone posts something like this they might want to bone up a bit before hand.

Jesus came back and didn't have to stay in Hell forever. Also, he could have stayed as long as he wanted. It wasn't really a sacrifice.

Answer those points, please. I don't think that I was being stupid."

FOGuy

Diana,

No I have not met Amos. I usually don't have much time to participate in these threads so I'm sure there are many people & points of view I've missed.

Now to your questions:

I suppose instead of 'spiritual realm' I should say a 'spiritual point of view'.

If you view the Bible as the history of man (as in humanity) your experience and logic, not to mention the utter lack of archaeological evidence, will tell you that this is false. We both agree on that. Yeah there may be SOME history but this was added as the Bible books were redacted.

But if I ask you to view the Bible as the history of the SOUL on earth how would you view it? How would you go about figuring it out? You would have to read it differently and this would require finding the keys to enable you to do so. I believe these keys were lost the moment this whole thing was converted into a literal history of man (in the OT) and of A MAN (in the NT). The ancient esoteric wisdom contained these keys.

A simple one is, as you read of Christ's 'death' and resurrection in the NT, think of the Christ, not as a man (which he wasn't) but as a principle called the Christos or the 'devine essence of man' and then switch the meaning of the word 'death' from a physical demise of the body to the 'death' of the Christos as it enters or joins the material body. The glyph of 'Christ on the cross of wood' symbolizes this principle. Wood being a glyph for matter. The 'pain and suffering' it undergoes as it struggles against the forces of the material (animal) instincts which are much stronger. The resurrection occurs at the true death of the material body when the spirit is released to return whence it came and to wait for its next cycle of incarnation to continue its evolution. The goal of the spirit is to evolve, to learn, as it struggles to reach full godhood - often referred to as the 'Coming Messiah' but not meant as the return of a physical man. To do that it NEEDS the physical body. The two cannot evolve independantly of each other. The story of the Prodigal Son highlights this 'spiritual' truth. I believe that the Bible read in this way provides much more food for the soul than trying to read it a literal history.

Another way to look at it is to think of a child and the pain and suffering it goes through as it climbs ever higher toward full adulthood. To do this he/she must go out into the world and experience as much as they can - good and bad. If they only abide at home they become nothing. They must go out learn, live, experience and return - all the wiser (the Prodigal Son). So it is with the soul also. the soul by itself will become nothing if it, too, only abides at home. It can only grow & evolve joined to the body. The Bible is the story of the soul, not of man.

Thats the way I try to view it. Some of these concepts can be difficult because we try to use our logic and experience to explain it. It really doesn't work - you have to be able to let go of these things and open youself up to new ideas and ways of thinking. I don't think my way is better than anyone else's, but after 10 yrs now of studying this I like to think I have a better understanding of what's really going on in the Bible. I don't preach it to anyone - I mostly just keep it myself unless someone asks (this can be VERY difficult at times I can tell you!!
: D ). Different strokes for different folks....and thanks for asking.

[ November 27, 2002: Message edited by: FOGuy ]</p>

winstonjen

There's quite an interesting discussion on this topic that I started here - <a href="http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00AFUQ" target="_blank">http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00AFUQ</a>

I've used some of the posts that people have put here, because their views echo so closely to mine. Onya mates!

Naked Ape

Bartender! Quick - give me two of whatever FOGuy is drinking!

What else can you tell us about souls?
Where are they located, what are they made of, what do they taste like, and can you tell the difference between half a soul and a soul and a half?
Personally, I don’t believe in any sort of ghosts inhabiting the meat puppets that have evolved on Earth.

Cheers

Naked Ape

hinduwoman

worldling said,
Nuh, this is only beauracracy.

worldling

Winston writes:

You seemed a bit outnumbered there Winston, so I put in a few words of support