spurly

[quote]
Fifth, if there is free will, and if Christianity is about relationship, then Hell is ultimately an expression of God's love in that those who reject relationship with God during this life will not be forced to enter into relationship with Him in the next.
[\quote]

This has been a belief of mine for a long time. god is a god of love who will not force anyone to enter a relationship with him. If someone was an atheist and God "condemned" them to an eternity in his presence, that would be "hell" for them.

So God does the most gracious thing he can, and grants them their request - to live without him. The only place that will exist in eternity is a place called hell. I don't know what it is like, but one thing I do know is that God is not there.

Kevin

Anathema

Well, actually Ronin, I can say that I did not choose to arrive at the conclusion of atheism.

It was not a choice at all, actually. Simply speaking, every fiber of my being screamed out at me that the "god" idea is purely false. It's not that I choose to not believe; rather, it's that my mind simply can not believe. Today, if I were to, somehow, "choose" to believe, I'd have to, somehow, convince myself that a lie is true. And that, in & of itself, is a paradox. One cannot lie to oneself: if I think something is false, simply telling myself that it's true doesn't make it truth.

So, with this being said, if the Judeo-Chrisitian-Muslim version of God is true, than, yes, he/she/it has already condemned millions of us to eternal torture.

There's no escaping this simple truth.

Anathema

Ummm, YES!

"No suffering" is infinitely more humane & loving than sentencing millions to suffer for an eternity is.


But why even create this "choice"?!?!? It's just so inhumane & loveless. If a human did such, he'd go down in the annals of history on par with Hitler, bin Laden, etc. ad nauseum.

xeren

How can it break god's heart if he knows, upon creating someone, that they are going to go to hell, and still decides to create them anyways?

xeren

Okay, i've missed several pages of this thread, but can anyone tell me if anyone has actually responded to my original post with an answer, or has it just been a lot of Christian "but God LOVES you!" nonsense that completely avoids any coming to terms with the difficulty of the OP?

Anathema

Furthermore, doesn't the idea of a "broken heart" (lonliness, sadness, desperation, etc.) consitute weak HUMAN qualities?
If so, how, then, can such a being rightfully be labeled as "god"?

Just makes no sense.


Oh, that's right: we were created in his image (as opposed to the more realistic vice-versa) :boohoo:

Selsaral

Sorry to insult the theists around here, but I have to comment on this. After many, many conversations with christians about theology etc I have concluded that most are completely, 100% incapable of understanding what you have written here, Anathema. I mean even after spending hours trying my hardest to get them to understand it, they refuse. They are positive that I actually DO believe in god, but that I refuse to 'accept' him (and what the hell is 'accepting' someone, anyways?) because of pride, satan etc. They find it utterly incomprehensible and therefore impossible that someone would see the christian god as no different than a Hindu god, or an Egpytian god, or santa claus, or telling the future with cards of paper, etc. I think this fundamental point is a serious obstacle to theists actually understanding atheism, but more importantly an obstacle to seeing their own religion objectively.