SecularFuture

pug846,
Testimony from what? A book that you *THINK* was inspired by God?
I’m sorry – that’s not evidence at all.

Absence of evidence and reason is absence of logic, and the God concepts, and the bible, are both without evidence or reason.

My argument is that there is no proof or reason to support your “proof”.

Why hasn’t God touched all of us? Why be mysterious when you want to be worshiped?

Douglas J. Bender

Would those have to be personally experienced by you, or would the testimony of apparently reliable witnesses count as "evidence"? And, what about prophecy? If convinced that a correct prophecy had occurred hundreds or thousands of years in advance, would you consider that as "evidence"?


In Christ,

Douglas

Douglas J. Bender

"God resists the proud, and gives grace to the humble". Have you genuinely and truthfully been HUMBLY seeking God and whether or not He exists?

The Bible indicates that Nature itself declares the glory and existence of God, so that those who deny His existence are "without excuse". (Note that I didn't say it, the Bible did - and I agree with the Bible.)

Besides, if God made Himself obviously and clearly known, and the fact that He was God (omnipotent, omniscient, perfect in love and justice), to the point of absolute knowledge (so that none could be deceived), then there could be no real "testing" of people's hearts. For example, if I wanted to know whether a hypothetical friend of mine was truly "free" of his cocaine addiction, I wouldn't know whether he was or not if he was kept in a locked up and secure prison under threat of severe and immediate punishment if he used cocaine - I wouldn't know until he felt he had the freedom to "get away with it". Though God knows each heart perfectly, each person must be shown through their own choices where their own heart is.

But there will come a Day (and that not too far off, it would seem) when God will reveal Himself in no uncertain terms. Better to be ready before that Day.


In Christ,

Douglas

[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: Douglas J. Bender ]</p>

SecularFuture

Douglas J. Bender,
Neither. The evidence needs to be scientific and recordable. Personal experiences are too subjective.

Too vague.

SecularFuture

Douglas J. Bender,
I was humble when I was a Christian. I stopped believing because I didn’t see the sense in it. Belief in God did not help me improve. It confused more than anything.

Why do you agree with the bible? Do you believe it was inspired by a God? If so, what are your reasons for believing this?

What is the point of this “test”? Wouldn’t a more obvious God equip us better in the fight against the “evils” he created?

Douglas J. Bender

SecularFuture,


You must be very lonely.

In Christ,

Douglas

Douglas J. Bender

SecularFuture,

God didn't create any "evil" - free will created beings themselves "created", by their free will choices, evil. However, your question is not seemingly related to my point about why people need to be given choices, and why God does not reveal Himself conclusively and absolutely. According to the Bible, God has perfectly "equipped" Christians in the fight against evil.

There is the evil that is in the world, and the evil that is in each heart, SF. God deals with each person on a personal level, and to do this He must get them to see that their own hearts are evil, before they can truly repent of their evil. And without repentance, how can one receive forgiveness? For example, if Saddam Hussein never repents of his desire for world domination, it would be rather silly and unjust to "forgive" him for that; if, on the other hand, he truly did repent, then forgiveness should be extended. But unless he sees that his desire is evil (if he thought it was okay), do you suppose he would ever repent of it?

In Christ,

Douglas

[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: Douglas J. Bender ]</p>

ZiprHead

Why in the world do you think someone must be lonely if you don't beleive in a god? Loneliness is simply a lack of fellowship and that can be obtained quite easily without resorting to some fantasy. No wonder your christ wants you to come to him as a child. Only children and the insane have invisible friends.

Jobar

Some heads-up notices, here.

SF, I'm not sure if you are aware, but pug846 is an atheist. His disagreements concerning the nature of evidence are purely on semantic grounds, I think.

Also, I want to warn you that debating with Douglas Bender has so far proven to be one long <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> to every other unbeliever on this board. He is not a rational or honest person, IMO.

Douglas- take your rants and preaching to the proper forum. Jobar, moderator.

galiel

Are you coming on to him?

You still haven't explained what you are doing "in Christ", so, if you are, does He know about this?

[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: galiel ]</p>