Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Thesouphead · 12-13-2002, 08:49 AM

Couldn't you just throw or spray paint all over the back yard and eventually find the damn monkey?

Or hold a banana in your hand and wait for it to be taken away from the invisible ape?

Wyz_sub10 · 12-13-2002, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thesouphead:
Couldn't you just throw or spray paint all over the back yard and eventually find the damn monkey?

Or hold a banana in your hand and wait for it to be taken away from the invisible ape?

In Sagan's dragon example (with a monkey substiture), the defendant argues that the monkey is etheral, so paint won't work. And the monkey doesn't need food, so he wouldn't take the banana.

The bottom line is that every test can be dismissed. You are left with a hollow, unprovable and ineffective argument.

You may just as well insist that you control all the electricity in your friend's house with your mind, or that the police should lock him/her up because he/she has deep intensions to steal televisions.

Now, ask them to prove either of those statements is false.

Pitshade · 12-13-2002, 08:55 AM

Off to General Religious Discussions

Harumi · 12-13-2002, 10:28 AM

Really, I should ask my friend to come here and take a look and see how we've ripped apart his argument.

The sad thing is that it's so common and has been disproven so many times!

I was hoping he would try for a little more...umph.

galiel · 12-13-2002, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Christians, even liberal ones, make me nuts!

If I send you a bowl, can you ask them to make me some?

Shake · 12-15-2002, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godless Dave:
Yeah, the person who thinks they have an invisible purple monkey in their back yard is nuts and the other person isn't. I love it when they hang themselves on their own rope.

[edited cause it's a monkey]

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Godless Dave ]

Right! 'Cause if it was a pink unicorn, then you could conclude that they're perfectly sane!

Sabine Grant · 12-15-2002, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Harumi:


It was a post on livejournal. I had a talk with several non-religiously affiliated people, and I was frustrated by their illogical arguments, so I wrote of my frustration in my livejournal, hoping to get some sympathy. His reply was completely unwarranted, and extremely rude, not to mention false.

For one, he assumed that my friends were deists, which wasn't true.

Then he assumed that I started the argument while I was "showing off" my atheism.

Then he asked me why I was so obsessed and why I felt to need to prove my point.

It's a betrayal that I never thought to feel. He's always been so cynical and logical about things, in fact, I've always been surprised that he was a theist. But apparently not. You gotta wonder how a person can reject the entire Bible but the Easter portion (where did he get the criteria to get rid of the other parts?). And when I gave him the Easter Challenge of Dan Barker, he dismissed it.

ARGH! Theists! <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Harumi... what would be wrong about having friends who are deists?

I hope you will in your life meet theists who will not fit your labeling of them. And I hope you will be open to recognize individuality in each theist.
We are all different Harumi and we present arguments differently. Do not be so disturbed and driven nuts by us because we think differently.
It is a much more noble endeavor to cultivate relationships with all kinds of people as you will find yourself in a better position to make a difference in their lives rather than take the back seat and point all fingers to them.

Starboy · 12-15-2002, 12:03 PM

Sabine Grant,

You seem like a gentle and caring person. You appear to be reacting defensively to some of the outrage that you see posted here. Please for one moment, consider the possibility that the atheist outrage you see is not without merit. Also consider the possibility that with your lessons of tolerance and understanding you are preaching to the choir and that perhaps your efforts would be better spent on the saved. I often see the religious claim that they are tolerant loving people, but I seldom ever see them denounce openly and with conviction the outrages committed in the name of god by their fellow believers. And I have never seen in my entire life a religious person demonstrating side by side with an atheist to protect their rights of freedom of religion under the constitution. To atheists it is yet another example of religious hypocrisy.

Starboy

[ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]

Wyz_sub10 · 12-16-2002, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabine Grant:
Harumi... what would be wrong about having friends who are deists?

I think Harumi's furstrastion was initially with non-theists, as stated in the OP, and that subsequent frustration had to do with the assumption of "showing off atheism."

Harumi isn't saying that having theist friends is bad.

Harumi · 12-16-2002, 07:28 AM

Perhaps I wasn't clear:

I don't mind Deists. My boyfriend is one, and he and I love each other to pieces. I can deal with a person who might believe that there is some force out there who creates things, after all, we can't logically disprove that, and it may very well be true. Perhaps the force is gravity.

I was hurt by the fact that he made assumptions without my explanation, then assumed that I had instigated the argument instead of the other way around.

Why in the world to people always assume that it is the atheist who starts things. We don't. Usually it's the other way around. I just thought he knew me better than that, and when he didn't, well, I was just very disappointed.

It's not an insult toward theists. I don't believe in labeling, and I never will. If you've ever read my thread on "Obnoxious Atheists" you would know my stance on the matter.

12-15-2002, 12:03 PM	#28
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Sabine Grant, You seem like a gentle and caring person. You appear to be reacting defensively to some of the outrage that you see posted here. Please for one moment, consider the possibility that the atheist outrage you see is not without merit. Also consider the possibility that with your lessons of tolerance and understanding you are preaching to the choir and that perhaps your efforts would be better spent on the saved. I often see the religious claim that they are tolerant loving people, but I seldom ever see them denounce openly and with conviction the outrages committed in the name of god by their fellow believers. And I have never seen in my entire life a religious person demonstrating side by side with an atheist to protect their rights of freedom of religion under the constitution. To atheists it is yet another example of religious hypocrisy. Starboy [ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

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12-13-2002, 08:49 AM	#21
Thesouphead Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 717	Couldn't you just throw or spray paint all over the back yard and eventually find the damn monkey? Or hold a banana in your hand and wait for it to be taken away from the invisible ape?

12-13-2002, 08:55 AM	#23
Pitshade Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sugar Grove,NC Posts: 4,316	Off to General Religious Discussions

12-13-2002, 10:28 AM	#24
Harumi Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 3,184	Really, I should ask my friend to come here and take a look and see how we've ripped apart his argument. The sad thing is that it's so common and has been disproven so many times! I was hoping he would try for a little more...umph.

12-16-2002, 07:28 AM	#30
Harumi Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 3,184	Perhaps I wasn't clear: I don't mind Deists. My boyfriend is one, and he and I love each other to pieces. I can deal with a person who might believe that there is some force out there who creates things, after all, we can't logically disprove that, and it may very well be true. Perhaps the force is gravity. I was hurt by the fact that he made assumptions without my explanation, then assumed that I had instigated the argument instead of the other way around. Why in the world to people always assume that it is the atheist who starts things. We don't. Usually it's the other way around. I just thought he knew me better than that, and when he didn't, well, I was just very disappointed. It's not an insult toward theists. I don't believe in labeling, and I never will. If you've ever read my thread on "Obnoxious Atheists" you would know my stance on the matter.

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