fatherphil

i still blame humanity although for some strange reason many would blame God and then use that reasoning to determine that there is no God.

Rhea

The strange reason is that it contradicts the definition of god. That's why for many people they look at these two items side-by-side:

Lesley Ann Downey .... .... .... ... God as described by the New Testament

... !! Does not compute!

*shakes head, tries to refocus, looks again...*




... !! Does not compute !!




That's why some people think this "proves" the God of the New Testament doesn't exist.

Inconnu

A king canot be humble. How can you be bold and humble, boldy humble?

Amaranth

If there is a god, and he created everything, then everything is his fault.

Radorth

Maybe some Christians don't know or haven't thought about the answer. So what? It doesn't justify including assertions in thread titles. If you gave a whit about hearing the answer, you would stop whining about it. Your motive is to introduce doubt, not hear what we have to say apparently.


I fail to see a direct correlation between God answering prayer and salvation. We have a clear example of a man so backslidden, Paul said to "turn him over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh" who was not damned eternally. It's obvious Paul could have cared less whether he was physically killed. Therefore, not all saved people can avoid worldly trouble. In fact it is useful for getting their attention. If you ignore commandments and counselors, God will send circumstances. Judgement has redemptive power.

As for innocent people who suffer judgement anyway, you at least should supply specifics and say what you think God should have done about it if you want to have a meaningful discussion.

Rad

Shake

You know, what's scary is that I'm sure there are folks out there that believe this. :banghead:

MrDarwin

(emphasis mine)

Um... excuse me? Earlier in this very thread you implied that God does not intercede in people's affairs because to do so would interfere with their free will. Now you say God "sends circumstances." Which is it, Radorth???

And yet I made several specific suggestions in direct response to your question. If it's meaningful discussion you want, then I suggest you improve your reading skills.

christ-on-a-stick

Y'know, in keeping with the questions being posed to theists in this thread, I have never gotten an answer to the explicit question I asked in this thread...

If God can EVER intervene in human affairs to save or rescue someone from harm without interfering with Free Will, why can he not ALWAYS choose to intervene to stop such things such as rape, murder, child abuse, and torture?

Xians claim that God sometimes intervenes in human affairs - i.e., "miracles". (Xians correct me if I am wrong).

Then they claim that God cannot intervene when evil is being perpetrated without interfering with the perpetrator's free will.

See question above.

Radorth

I'm glad to see specifics spelled out because it makes for a useful discussion. Nevertheless, it's the old "A good God would have zapped them" argument. I've already ponted out that, taken to it's logical implication, this argument requires God to be a policeman waith 10,000 arms or some kind of zap guns reaching all over the world and solving every problem we choose to create.

Yes, he could do that, but you see, it does not achieve his goal, which is a kingdom of willing servants he can trust implicitly. We are indebted to one commentator (Christian?) who said he would rather have ten willing soldiers under his command than a hundred conscripts. Do you want a world full of people motivated by love and righteousness, or just let them be unrighteousness and control them with fear? And where does it end? Should he zap women on their way to abortion clinics? Should he give mild shock treatments to women porn shp owners until the close up.

God knows where it ends. It doesn't, and it won't work.

And guess what? It is the skeptics here who tell us one day we ought not to be motivated by fear, then tell us the next that God should go around zapping people. It is skeptics who tell us God should have made us more robotic, with less freedom of choice, then complain Christians are are robotlike, or live in fear of God. I suggest it is they, not the Christians, who would complain God had robbed the world of the freedom to do what they want, and decide for themselves what is "good and evil."

IMO, you need to make a choice if you want to say you have integrity, and when you make the choice, God's workings (or non-workings if you like) become far more reasonable and explicable.

Rad

Jamie_L

Furthermore, if God can intervene by punishing/rewarding a soul after the death of its physical body, why can't God intervene with by punishing/rewarding a soul while it is inhabiting its physical body?

Jamie