Freethought & Rationalism Archive

seesaw · 01-01-2003, 08:52 AM

peteyh,

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Don't you think that's a bit of an intellectual cop-out? If there is a God, he's given us minds and the ability to figure out how this universe he's created is set up. At what point does it become impossible for us to understand his work?

Yeah it's some what a cop-out. I'm an atheist, but let�s say there is a god for a second is there a way to really understand a perfect being would act? I just can't see any way we could ever say we would know how god used evolution (this is only if god exists).

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It used to be that it was impossible for us to understand any more than what we could see with our own eyes. Then we developed communications techniques and technology to allow us to understand things that we cannot see and demonstrate through reproducable methods that those things exist. We have gotten better and better at this over the centuries and each time we find more things that were once attributed to God to be due to totally natural processes without any involvement by Him. Where is it that you think we'll hit a barrier in this advancement, beyond which it is impossible for us to understand what God has done and why can we not advance beyond that point?

I understand what your saying, but if there is a god (which I think there isn't) there is no way to know how a perfect, and all knowing being would use evolution. We may understand evolution, but I think to understand how a god would use a tool like evolution would be impossible. I might be wrong but could we really say that god would use evolution a certain way?

Heh I�m playing devils advocate here (and every poorly) I don't think there is a barrier I think we can do anything we want. I think we will always advance and I don't think someone beliefs will ever change that.

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Also, do you believe that we have souls?

Nope.

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Do chimps have souls?

Nope.

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Do iguanas have souls?

Nope.

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If not, at what point did we get ours and why?

Sense I don't believe we have a soul it might be hard for me to answer this. I think that Christians believe we get our souls when we are born, and why I'm not really sure on this.

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If so, do you reconcile this with the beliefs of most major religions that humans are somehow "special" in nature?

I don't at all believe Humans are special in nature.

wildernesse · 01-01-2003, 09:22 AM

But humans ARE special in all of nature--afterall, I'm a human and I'm pretty darn special

--tibac

seesaw · 01-01-2003, 09:32 AM

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Originally posted by wildernesse
Bafterall, I'm a human and I'm pretty darn special

--tibac

I'm not going to argue with that.

thebeave · 01-01-2003, 10:23 AM

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Originally posted by wildernesse
I'm a theistic evolutionist and I think that God is capable of creating a universe that you have described, and, yes, there is an excellent chance that this is a universe where we just evolved all on our lonesome.

How do I think God guided evolution? I don't know, and haven't thought a lot about it. Why haven't I? Well, it's pretty much impossible to know, isn't it? My brand of guidance is kind of hands off until he got some kind of sentient animal and then gave them a soul. Could I be wrong--yes, seeing as I can't really define "soul".

--tibac

I think that as soon as I fall asleep every night, the teddy bear on my bed comes alive and spends the night rummaging through my laundry, eating my ice cream and playing with my tools in the garage. Then, just before I wake up, he jumps back in bed and assumes the same postion when I went to sleep. And yes, there is an excellent chance that he doesn't move at all at night.

How do I think my teddy bear does it? I don't know, and haven't thought a lot about it. Why haven't I? Well, its pretty much impossible to know, isn't it? And that's the truth....

wildernesse · 01-01-2003, 09:55 PM

touche, the beave!

But I can't really know--why? Because the only reliable means I have of measuring what is happening in the natural world is through scientific processes. Those scientific processes preclude supernatural activity as a means of explaing natural phenomena. And I wouldn't seriously offer non-scientific explanations of how God intervenes in evolution.

I simply believe this to be true. I hope your teddy bear never gets tired of ice cream and turns to eating your laundry!

--tibac

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01-01-2003, 09:22 AM	#12
wildernesse Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,578	But humans ARE special in all of nature--afterall, I'm a human and I'm pretty darn special --tibac

01-01-2003, 09:55 PM	#15
wildernesse Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,578	touche, the beave! But I can't really know--why? Because the only reliable means I have of measuring what is happening in the natural world is through scientific processes. Those scientific processes preclude supernatural activity as a means of explaing natural phenomena. And I wouldn't seriously offer non-scientific explanations of how God intervenes in evolution. I simply believe this to be true. I hope your teddy bear never gets tired of ice cream and turns to eating your laundry! --tibac

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