Freethought & Rationalism Archive

John Galt, Jr. · 10-25-2002, 05:03 AM

scigirl,

You say,

Quote:

For me, the idea that we are superior comes from the fact that we pretty much could destroy any other species on the planet (whereas they could not purposely destroy us). Therefore, we have a much bigger responsibility to care for the earth. Sounds cheezy - but if we don't do it, the chimps and dogs aren't going to - right Geo?

My question to you is the same as a question I posed to CS.

It looks as though you are saying that superior ability to destroy others makes us superior in some other sense as well. Let us suppose that some people are superior to others in ability to destroy others. According to you in what other sense are they superior in virtue of this superior ability to destroy.

Next question: IF I am superior to you in the ability to destroy others, does this make me superior to you in this other sense of superiority?

John Galt, Jr.

babelfish · 10-25-2002, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:


I think you have it a bit backwards. I think we developed big brains first and then lost the big teeth and hair etc. becuause we no longer needed it.

GeoTheo, I'm a little surprised - are you refering to evolution here? Aren't you a creationist?

But yes, I think it probably did happen that way. We most likely did evolve from creatures who were much hairier, toothier, and had bigger claws, but then were able to survive, using superior brain power, even when the more beastial accoutrements started to diminish.

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:

People have tried your experiment and survived quite well using their brains. I remember a Guy who stripped himself and entered the woods and returned 2 years later healthy and clothed in animal skins. I'm sure plenty of pre-literate tribal people in various parts of the globe, past and present,could take you up on your challenge as well.

Well, that may have actually happened, but I think if you were to take the average city-dweller and divest him of his three-piece suit and throw him into the middle of the wilderness, he would not fare quite so well.

Marduk · 10-25-2002, 08:54 AM

We could TRY and destroy all the other species on Earth, including ourselves, but the bugs and bacteria will still be around to eat our corpses.

Nataraja · 10-25-2002, 10:02 AM

How does superior destructive capacity make something more worth keeping around?

scigirl · 10-25-2002, 11:33 AM

John Galt, Jr,

I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, but...this is exactly why I don't post in Philosophy, and rarely post here. I have no idea what you are talking about (just like your dad, for most of the book anyway

)

All I'm saying is - we can destroy the world if we want, and no one else can stop us. Agreed? Ergo, it is up to us to not destroy it, if we don't want the earth destroyed. It was a logical statement, not a moral or philosophical one.

scigirl

Friar Bellows · 10-25-2002, 06:16 PM

Is nobody going to agree with the idea that humans have a superior intelligence to all other animals?

John Galt, Jr. · 10-26-2002, 01:07 AM

Corgan Sow,

Is the purpose of this thread, as you saw it when you initiated it, to simply list dimensions along which (some) humans are superior to (some) non-humans? Or is the purpose of the thread to draw some conclusion about the 'higher rank' of humans in comparison with other species because of one or more of these minor superiorities? If it is the former, please say so. If it is the latter, no one, including yourself, has even attempted to justify any such claim, whatever minor dimensional superiorities have been acknowledged by you or anyone else.

It is the lack of justification for any ranking of superiorities of the latter sort that undergirds the thinking of 'animal rights' people such as Singer and Regan.
====

Something has just occurred to me. In your initiating post, are you (merely) implicitly acknowledging the elevation of humans over non-humans, and accepting the criteria for such an elevation, but questioning the necessity of an appeal to God to explain these criterial phenomena? If this is what you were doing, then my earlier questions and those above all need to be (at least) reformulated.

John Galt, Jr.

Marduk · 10-26-2002, 06:27 AM

"Is nobody going to agree with the idea that humans have a superior intelligence to all other animals?"

No.

You are no doubt referring to human type intelligence. Ok, Humans have the superior type of human intelligence, dogs have the superior type of dog intelligence etc. Dolphins could have the highest intelligence of the entire universe, but they have no hands or legs, and they think and communicate in an entirely different manner so there would be nothing to compare. This is a pointless thread spent comparing apples to oranges. Or is it to make someone somewhere feel better, “I am the greatest! Worship me all you little critters! Or I will destroy you all! Mwah ha ha ha !”
Why are we wasting time crowing over an evolutionary fluke?

GeoTheo · 10-26-2002, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by babelfish:


Well, that may have actually happened, but I think if you were to take the average city-dweller and divest him of his three-piece suit and throw him into the middle of the wilderness, he would not fare quite so well.

Yes I am an evolutionist now.
As far as the city dweller thingy goes. I think you are right. This might be a good topic for another thread, though, but I happen to believe some of us humans are becoming too domesticated and are loosing some of our brain power and vitality just as what happens to other domesticated animals. Just think about it: Whenever we domesticate animals they get stupider and have less physical vitality. In order to survive in industrialized society today you really don't need very much ability at all. You don't even need social skills and definately not any physical prowess.

god-free-pen · 11-02-2002, 06:15 PM

If man was truly superior to animals he would recognize their importance to his own general overall happiness and would VOLUNTARILY grant them space to live, freedom to live without terrorism from gun crazed humans, etc.

We must do this in order to move up the evolutionary scale to a superior civilization, but there are too many of us stuck in the utter selfishness of the idea that human life (survival of the species) is the only life worthy of respect.

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10-25-2002, 08:54 AM	#43
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	We could TRY and destroy all the other species on Earth, including ourselves, but the bugs and bacteria will still be around to eat our corpses.

10-25-2002, 10:02 AM	#44
Nataraja Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NC Posts: 433	How does superior destructive capacity make something more worth keeping around?

10-25-2002, 11:33 AM	#45
scigirl Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,261	John Galt, Jr, I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, but...this is exactly why I don't post in Philosophy, and rarely post here. I have no idea what you are talking about (just like your dad, for most of the book anyway ) All I'm saying is - we can destroy the world if we want, and no one else can stop us. Agreed? Ergo, it is up to us to not destroy it, if we don't want the earth destroyed. It was a logical statement, not a moral or philosophical one. scigirl

10-25-2002, 06:16 PM	#46
Friar Bellows Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: arse-end of the world Posts: 2,305	Is nobody going to agree with the idea that humans have a superior intelligence to all other animals?

10-26-2002, 01:07 AM	#47
John Galt, Jr. Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 73	Corgan Sow, Is the purpose of this thread, as you saw it when you initiated it, to simply list dimensions along which (some) humans are superior to (some) non-humans? Or is the purpose of the thread to draw some conclusion about the 'higher rank' of humans in comparison with other species because of one or more of these minor superiorities? If it is the former, please say so. If it is the latter, no one, including yourself, has even attempted to justify any such claim, whatever minor dimensional superiorities have been acknowledged by you or anyone else. It is the lack of justification for any ranking of superiorities of the latter sort that undergirds the thinking of 'animal rights' people such as Singer and Regan. ==== Something has just occurred to me. In your initiating post, are you (merely) implicitly acknowledging the elevation of humans over non-humans, and accepting the criteria for such an elevation, but questioning the necessity of an appeal to God to explain these criterial phenomena? If this is what you were doing, then my earlier questions and those above all need to be (at least) reformulated. John Galt, Jr.

10-26-2002, 06:27 AM	#48
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	"Is nobody going to agree with the idea that humans have a superior intelligence to all other animals?" No. You are no doubt referring to human type intelligence. Ok, Humans have the superior type of human intelligence, dogs have the superior type of dog intelligence etc. Dolphins could have the highest intelligence of the entire universe, but they have no hands or legs, and they think and communicate in an entirely different manner so there would be nothing to compare. This is a pointless thread spent comparing apples to oranges. Or is it to make someone somewhere feel better, “I am the greatest! Worship me all you little critters! Or I will destroy you all! Mwah ha ha ha !” Why are we wasting time crowing over an evolutionary fluke?

11-02-2002, 06:15 PM	#50
god-free-pen Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Navarre, FL Posts: 109	If man was truly superior to animals he would recognize their importance to his own general overall happiness and would VOLUNTARILY grant them space to live, freedom to live without terrorism from gun crazed humans, etc. We must do this in order to move up the evolutionary scale to a superior civilization, but there are too many of us stuck in the utter selfishness of the idea that human life (survival of the species) is the only life worthy of respect.

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