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Frood Dude:

I'm not asking God for the answers, I'm asking Stormy.

The Frood Dude

Fair enough. I got the impression she knows it all too. But she softens as you get to know her.

Stormy

I am not soft like a marshmallow. But I am sweet (sometimes)

OK... You want to analyze God.

You say that he would want this... or he would want that.

But what do you base this anology on?

Your unbelief?

Now, since you seem to have switched your focus onto me...

I am also in the crib. I lay there beside you. I do not know all there is to know. But my heart and soul hold the Spirit of one that does. He has shown me things that expand my quest to learn. I know that there is much more, and much less, to this life than seems humanly possible.

The more we learn... the more we know... that there is so much more to learn.

babelfish

Why do you think it's necessary to believe in a god or gods to feel this way? This is very similar to the way I view the world too. It's wondrous and mysterious and inscrutable. There is so much we don't know, but that's what makes life so great! I don't see where your God fits into this outlook.

hinduwoman

But does god wish us to grow up and be able to carry on without him?

The Frood Dude

If we go with the parent analogy, then it follows that we should one day be able to reason and think for ourselves based on what our parents gave us. But if you want to do a different analogy, you could come up with a different conclusion. One problem with a transcendent God is that analogies don't always do justice to her.

Stormy

No...

If I were to imagine what God would want from mankind.

I would have to say that it would definetly not be a truning away from him.

God works through me to bring love to others. I do not see how I would be a better person without the Spirit in my soul.

Stormy

I do not think that it is necessary to believe in God to see the wonders of this Universe. Our eyes can take in its glory... our ears can testify to its life... our senses can find the love that God has given us all... atheist and believer alike.

But if you go further than your natural senses, and reach out with all your heart and soul, then you will find God's gifts know no limit. For God's bounty for the believer is without limitations of this natural world.

I do not believe in God out of necessity.

I believe in him because of Truth and Grace.

diana

babelfish said: Of course, the implicit question is why your god is needed to explain the presence of anything. Surely you see that, Stormy. However, you sidestepped this with the following reply:

Yes. Hot lava brings excruciating death to believer and unbeliever alike, as the good book says. (Or maybe it was some other natural phenomenon. Rain, maybe....)

I don't know about everybody else, but I'm keen to hear more about what, specifically, "God's gifts" are, and how you know they are God's gifts and not, say, the product of your imagination. How would I go about "going further than" my "natural senses"? How, exactly, does one "reach out" with one's "heart and soul"? What, precisely, is a soul, anyway?

Until demonstrated otherwise, I will consider all such statements little more than a load of touchy-feely Christian-like avoidance of questions and outright Appeals to Emotion. In a less fertile mind than mine, you might say such things and bring about the growth of beautiful, warm-and-fuzzy feelings, but to me it just stinks. IOWs, it's dung.

What makes you think you have any more ability to appreciate the earth's bounty than we do, anyway? Upon what evidence do you base this assertion?

IOWs...hrm.

P1: I believe Truth and Grace exist.
P2: (Assumed: Truth and Grace cannot exist without an all-powerful being to explain them.)
Therefore,
C: I believe an all-powerful being exists (and he is, coincidentally, the God I was taught to believe in as an impressionable child).

Is that essentially your argument?

You must do better, Stormy. Quite frankly, you're preaching (or "witnessing," if you prefer). You may not consider it to be such, but I do. I define "preaching" as "sharing unsubstantiated claims about God." I could add "unwelcome," but you should have that point by now.

If you still don't understand why people (or I, for that matter) am losing patience with you, I advise you to go familiarize yourself with the SecWeb's basic overview of sound reasoning and the most common fallacies.

d

Stormy

diana : Hi there.

I am sorry that you found my post so offensive. It was not meant to be. Part of the reason may be... because you did not read exactly what I said. There was no place that I stated that an Atheist is not fully capable of enjoying all the bounties of this Earth.

Also, I do not remember knowing you as a child. You must have me confused with someone else.

I am not here to bring anyone to salvation. There is only one Savior and I am not it.

Geesh, I thought you guys would welcome some fresh meat to chew on.