Freethought & Rationalism Archive

catmar · 07-09-2003, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
The same can be said for pedophilia.

The same could be said for everything! I love mangoes, my husband can't stand them and I really don't understand why.

The difference between pedophilia and transgender issues is that transgender issues only affect the one person (anyone else is being too nosy and it is not their business anyhow). Pedophilia affects the victim, the victim's family, and the jerk/b*tch who did it to the child. It is a bit different.

catmar · 07-09-2003, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philosoft
I think there's an obvious difference in relative harm. But you've surely considered this, so what's your angle?

Thank you, Philosoft. It was my comment that encouraged his.

eta: Also, Thank you to Daggah.

kctan · 07-09-2003, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blondegoddess
I wonder, according to Christian theology, do people who are transgendered ever have a chance at redemption? They will always be an abomination in the eyes of God. So they are commiting sin continually, or, is it that they can just pray for forgiveness one and be done with it? Hmmm....

Of course, as long as they recognise jebus as lawd (even at the last minute), they are bound for heaven. The jebus guy died for such kind of sin ~2000 yrs ago.

Unless these transgendered blasphamised (spelling ?) the holy ghosty during their transgenderisation, nothing is stopping them from going to heaven.

This makes one think why the rcc is getting so heat up on them getting transgenderised & why yguy is so upset too.

beth · 07-09-2003, 10:00 AM

Good point, but it is a sin for a man to be efeminate or for a woman to be butch...so even if they repent, they will be in sin even after death. Hmmm.

yguy · 07-09-2003, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philosoft
So, to sum up: transsexuality and pedophilia are analagous because both are "weird"? Seriously?

Yes.

Quote:

I'm having a bit of trouble accepting that you've got the prospective transsexual's best interests in mind when you say this. Honestly, I have no idea how many transsexuals wake up one day and decide they've made a big mistake. And of those, I have no idea how many are unable to cope with their mistakes, but I suspect it's a vanishingly small number. The upshot of your concern is that these few individuals are somehow representative of transsexuals in general. The ones who are satisfied with their sex-changes are, I guess delusional and those who are coping are, what, victims of a blind psychological community?

Yes.

Jobar · 07-09-2003, 10:19 AM

I believe that abe smith, one of our oldest regular members, has stated that he is a female=>male transexual. Perhaps someone might PM him and alert him to this topic?

yguy · 07-09-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by catmar
The same could be said for everything! I love mangoes, my husband can't stand them and I really don't understand why.

The difference between pedophilia and transgender issues is that transgender issues only affect the one person (anyone else is being too nosy and it is not their business anyhow). Pedophilia affects the victim, the victim's family, and the jerk/b*tch who did it to the child. It is a bit different.

Of course it is. Petty theft is different from murder, but it's also the same in that both are illegal.

yguy · 07-09-2003, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blondegoddess
Good point, but it is a sin for a man to be efeminate or for a woman to be butch...so even if they repent, they will be in sin even after death. Hmmm.

I think that effeminacy is not a sin, but the result of sin. For a man, that sin would be raving too much female love. Repentance would have less to do with spending hours on bended knees in intense prayer than with simply realizing the mistake.

Roland98 · 07-09-2003, 10:43 AM

Quote:

yguy said:
If a transsexual thinks better of the transformation, he/she is rather up a creek without a paddle.

Do you have any idea how much counseling pre-op transexuals have to receive before proceeding with their operation? Or how long they have to actually live as the "other sex" before the actual surgery portion is performed? It's not as if one wakes up in the morning, says, "I think I'll have a sex change today," and by midnight, POOF!--Patrick is Patricia. There is an enormous amount of thought that goes into this.

Quote:

I think it's a hideous tragedy that such surgery was ever considered for those who are physiologically normal.

Personally, I think it's a tragedy that people commit suicide because they feel like they were born the wrong gender. And it's a hideous tragedy that anyone would deny them what medical science has to offer.

yguy · 07-09-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland98
There is an enormous amount of thought that goes into this.

An enormous amount of thought went into the formation of the Soviet Union, too.

Quote:

Personally, I think it's a tragedy that people commit suicide because they feel like they were born the wrong gender.

Of course it is.

Quote:

And it's a hideous tragedy that anyone would deny them what medical science has to offer.

I think medical science has nothing to offer in this matter. Worse than nothing, actually.

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07-09-2003, 10:00 AM	#44
beth Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: where orange blossoms bloom... Posts: 1,802	Good point, but it is a sin for a man to be efeminate or for a woman to be butch...so even if they repent, they will be in sin even after death. Hmmm.

07-09-2003, 10:19 AM	#46
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	I believe that abe smith, one of our oldest regular members, has stated that he is a female=>male transexual. Perhaps someone might PM him and alert him to this topic?

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