HelenM

Originally posted by David Mathews:
Hello HelenSL,

Hello David

As an evangelical Christian, you should really know what "love God" means and be able to answer that question affirmatively without commentary.

Did you read what I wrote? I am trying to explain that I might mislead you unless I know what you mean by the terms you're asking me to say "yes" or "no" to.

Otherwise you might hear me to be saying something entirely other than what I was saying. Surely you are smart enough to understand this...!

Are you certain that you are not an atheistic Christian?



No, David, I'm a Christian who likes atheists and listens to what they say.

But, if that makes me an 'atheistic Christian', then I guess I am. Yet again you do not define your terms...so how can I answer your questions?

love
Helen

[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p>

Ryanfire

Gee I dunno.. Could it be most of the world believes in a sky daddy? Could it be that most people only behave because they think they will reap the rewards in the afterlife? Yet.. many of the wars in this world are over religion. Ironic isn't it?

This is how you must approach life David. Anything is possible.

I was Eleventeen when I ate thirty twelve hamburgers in forty thirteen minutes.

The concept of religion has inspired numerous wars, corruption of government affairs, and abuses of power. The concept of god has motivated humans to commit extreme acts of sacrifice to please their god, this may involve killing others not of the same faith. The impoverished lands exist because they no doubtly had believed in god and wondered why their life sucked such ass. They have no choice but to rebel against their god/government.

Religion has done much to the human mind, and it continues to do so today, but there are warriors of humanity that will stop this disease.
Humans blessed(cursed) humans when he gave himself religion and instilled in humans the fear of the unknown, and the desire to reap rewards from a sky daddy for behaving.

sandlewood

Yikes! Are you saying that God is no more than a concept in the minds of humans, a concept created by humans? That’s what it sounds like.

[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: sandlewood ]</p>

Goliath

David Mathews,

No more so than any real number. What is your point?

Sincerely,

Goliath

wordsmyth

That is good to know.

I must say that you are a very inconsistent person. First you believe that I am being overly sensitive, but now you are inclined to agree with me.

I will speak on behalf of logic and reason to help you understand why you are mistaken. The xian deity is a Trinity comprised of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Muslims and Jews do not recognize Jesus as being a divine being or part of a Trinity which xians propose. Muslims in general are of the opinion Jesus was merely a prophet and not God himself or even the son of God as portrayed in the New Testament. Muslims also do not recognize the Holy Spirit in the context of a Trinity either.

In your very own quote we see that Moses and Jesus are both likened to Prophets, or Messengers of Allah and nothing more. This is irreconcilable with the xian belief that Jesus is one part of a Trinity that comprises the xian deity. It should also be noted that Muslims generally do not believe a majority of the supernatural feats attributed to Jesus in the NT, which is the reason behind the following quote that you posted…

Muslims generally believe that the scriptures pertaining to Jesus were corrupted by early xians, that is the basis for this statement about the extant scriptures not being in their “pristine form”.

Unless you have some evidence that either Muslims or Jews hold to the same ideal of a Trinity, then your argument has failed.

The differences are not superficial in the slightest. The Trinity is a fundamental belief among xians and that concept is irreconcilable with the Jewish and Muslim beliefs about God. What IS superficial are the similarities in belief between the religions of islam, Judaism, and xianity pertaining to God. It seems you are attempting to force your personal beliefs on to the beliefs of muslims, jews, and other xians.

Actually, based on his actions in the bible, I doubt he would just tell you. I can’t recall a single account in the bible of the xian deity merely telling someone that he was unhappy with him or her. Some sort of divine retribution quickly followed whenever God was displeased. However, judging by the lack of evidence that anyone has ever suffered any sort of “divine retribution”, I think you are safe.

Jesus routinely “cast out demons” and even recruited his disciples on occasion to do the same. So, your assertion that it was not a major component of religious thought is fallacious due to the fact that it appears, according to the bible, quite commonplace during Jesus’s lifetime. Although possession by demons may not be a fundamental part of Jesus’s philosophy, it is obvious that it was considered an important aspect of xian belief due to the inclusion of it in several areas of the NT.
Belief in demon possession was quite common until just the last two centuries when the belief began to die out rather quickly as mankind (science) learned about mental illness.

Science has never claimed to be infallible, yet it has produced more benefits to mankind including answers about ourselves and the universe in which we live than any deity has ever been shown to. I certainly hope you recall your lack of confidence in science should you ever require medical attention. Also, if you truly have no confidence in science perhaps you should give up your automobile and refrain from using any electrical appliance such as your computer. You seem to have taken for granted all the ways you demonstrate your confidence in science every single day, so you will have to forgive me if I reserve some doubts about your alleged righteousness over science.

Can you be more specific regarding your statement “The context of the story determines my interpretation of it as allegorical or historical.” I’m interested to know what precisely about the context sways your belief one way or the other.

I disagree with your assertion that comprehension of the bible’s message requires belief. I believe a person could comprehend the bible’s message as a philosophy without necessarily believing any of the supernatural events it describes. You said yourself that you would still be a xian even if all mention of Jesus’s divine and supernatural ability were removed.

If the posts you address to me are read and commented on by other people, then you should direct your responses regarding those comments to those people instead of assuming that I believe as they do. You know as well as I that not all xians think alike and so it is foolish of you to assume that all atheists think the same.

If you are simply feeling a bit overwhelmed by the number of responses I can understand. If that is the case, just say the word and I will drop our discussion in deference to others. I would rather be just an observer than to see you leave due to frustration.

David Mathews

Hello Bluenose,

David: Good to see that you hold her in such high esteem.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

David Mathews

Hello Ryanfire,

David: Humans have killed other humans for thousands of different religions. When the atheistic Soviets invaded Afghanistan, they were killing Muslims for non-religious reasons ...

David: Now you are being humorous.

David: I detect a hint of prejudice and anger at religion.

David; You look forward to no reward at all. What does atheism do for you?

Sincerely,

David Mathews

David Mathews

Hello Sandlewood,

David: No, I am not saying that.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

HelenM

I doubt that's the issue. I expect he/she believes it because he/she thinks it's true.

love
Helen

David Mathews

Hello Goliath,

David: Abstract concepts are not inherently false.

Sincerely,

David Mathews