JGL53

And what the F happened to my new on-line pharmacist buddy Dune, for whom I started this thread?

Dune, do you have any questions on the subject that doesn't include accusing me of having a god complex or being a masochistic eater of grilled salmon and artificial sweeteners? Let fly, buddy.

Free Thinkr

LOL.. I like this:

First
Then
Naw, I don't think anyone else will post.

sargasso_see

Well, just to comment on diets in general, I think anyone who's been on the same regimen for several years would find a way to make it work. But for beginners and low-carb diets, one word: ketosis.

JGL53

Actually, Dr. Rick addressed the question of ketosis on a previous thread. It seems a lot of ignorant people get it mixed up with ketoacidosis.

Ketosis is usually only a real factor during the induction phase of Atkins's dietary regimen. It can't be that terrible a thing - epileptic children are sometimes put on an extreme ketogenic diet for months or even years at a time (an 85 per cent fat diet!) and do quite well, e.g., they don't gain weight, their cholesterol profile remains acceptable, etc; so much for the 'harmful' low-carb diet belief.

Judging from the previous two threads here I've seen on the subject of controlled-carbohydrate diets, there's a whole lot of misconceptions among many people concerning the subject.
Personally, my take on this is analagous to my position on abortion - if you're against abortion, don't have one - and if you hate the idea of a reduced- carbohydrate diet, don't go on one - problem(s) solved.

Free Thinkr

Don't get me wrong, I agree. If you want to try a low-carb diet, be my guest. I simply feel that you're going a more difficult route than necessary. Also, I hate ANY diet that makes claims it can't back up, which is exactly what all fad diets do.

sargasso_see

Ergo, the distinction between "beginners" and experienced dieters. And as a diabetic I know what ketoacidosis is. And for epileptics a ketone surplus-inducing regimen is a strategy to deny energy to seizure-inducing nervous activity. It is a medical treatment, not a diet.

I'm not against low-carb or any other diets. I just said people, especially beginners, would be better served knowing exactly what it is they're supposed to be doing first.

JGL53

Thanks for your comments. Certainly, the ketogenic diet is used as a medical treatment for children with uncontrolled seizures. My point was that even an eighty-five per cent fat diet containing little if any carbohydrate has been demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt to be non-harmful, long term. The joke is that, in comparison, the 'harmful' Atkins diet is low-fat.

Certainly, as you say, 'people would be better served knowing exactly what it is they're supposed to be doing first'. E.g., no one should ever decide to go ona low carb regimen based only what a relative, friend or coworker is doing - reading about and understanding the whole theory is necessary. And if one has any diagnosed chronic illness and/or is taking a maintenance prescription drug, one should obviously work with one's physician on any major diet change.

For people who are basically healthy, certainly they should gain all the knowledge possible on the entire subject before trying any new diet. I have read all the major books now on low-carb theory. Most of these are by practicing physicians or scientists. I have read a tremendous amount of information, both pro and con, on the net regarding the subjects of nutrition and diet.

From such reading, it is my understanding now that:

- some studies indicate some very high carb diets can cause elevated triglycerides and do not raise, but may even reduce, the so-called good cholesterol - HDL. It is my understanding that these factors are now more associated with CHF than total cholesterol and total LDL.

- in the few short term head to head comparisons studies between Atkins and the government recommended sixty per cent carb diet, so far the studies have shown Atkins superior.

- the only diet that the government pyramid diet has been shown superior to is the fast food All-American diet of crap fats and crap carbs.

The article below, which I have already listed on a previous thread, does a great job of laying out how all the low fat/ high carb crap really got started. It's a fucking sad story.

http://www.lowcarb.ca/articlesb/article344.html

nermal

My criticism of the Atkins diet is this:
About 80% of the world's population eat low fat, low protien diets based on carbs, and about 80% of the world's population wouldn't know what obesity was if you tried to describe it to them.
Only in countries rich enough to afford large amounts of meat, dairy, and other fats do you find obesity.
The Atkins diet is simply Amero/Euro centrism, period. It ignores the dietary lessons of most of the world's populations as if they didn't exist.

Ed

Gurdur

I'm not qualified to comment on the Atkins diet.... but you do find obesity among the rest 80% of the world's population, and it's a worrying trend.

Proper obesity per se is long taken as a mark of status and power among very many human societies --- whether Western or Third-World.

Given also the modern diets of many (high sugar, high fat), then obesity and consequent diabetes is an ever-increasing problem in many Third-World societies, as it is in the West.

Claudia

Best diet:
-Learn to cook
-Use this knowledge (no preprocessed food)
-drink only water and wine (not too much of this one)
-suppress candies.