Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mad Kally · 05-20-2002, 06:01 PM

Bree,
Nystatin is used by cancer patients who have mouth sores (stomatitis) caused by chemotherapy drugs. Sometimes it's combined with Lidocaine and hydrogen peroxide and it works quite well.

Bree · 05-20-2002, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Veil of Fire:

Bree: *I* believe you. I'm just as surprised as you are. Don't you just love "freethinkers" calling something they don't know shit about hocus-pocus, just because... ummm... well... because someone told them it was bunk?

<bree is much, much better>

That's pretty much how I felt about it, Veil of Fire - like an automatic assumption that I'm obviously unawares that I'm participating in something idiotic and could probably produce the same effects with pig urine.

Kally - thanks for the info - I haven't really done much research as to the other medicinal uses for Nystatin. Such ammo is good to have!

Gurdur -

.

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]

Veil of Fire · 05-20-2002, 06:06 PM

Bree: Or prayer. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

As if there's anything at all we don't know 100% of every detail about. Anything that's not completely infallibly scientifically proven a billion times is complete and total bullshit with no redeeming value whatsoever. That's the message I consistantly get out of here. We know everything, so if there's some little bit that's not explained, well, it obviously can't possibly be anything more than a placebo.

DRFseven · 05-20-2002, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Jon: I hate to pick at nits here, but.. Air is made up of chemicals. Water is a chemical. Wood is made up of chemicals. Dirt, rock, dust, poisons, viruses, bacteria, plants, animals, kitchen implements, and even feces are also made up of chemicals. In fact, much of matter is.

Um, yes, that was my point. Throw different vegetables in, you get a different flavored soup.

Gurdur · 05-20-2002, 06:11 PM

I guess this means no-one wants another story ?

Veil of Fire · 05-20-2002, 06:14 PM

..but really, only the chemicals we put in high-priced pills actually DO anything. All the rest are just placebos.

MrDarwin · 05-20-2002, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gurdur:
I guess this means no-one wants another story ?

Gurdur, please please please tell us another story! Your stories are all so good! Not nice, but really swell!

Gurdur · 05-20-2002, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDarwin:

Gurdur, please please please tell us another story! Your stories are all so good! Not nice, but really swell!

Fawner.

MrDarwin · 05-20-2002, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gurdur:


Fawner.

Personally, I prefer "panderer".

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]

Coragyps · 05-20-2002, 06:47 PM

Bree - my 10-minute research endeavor on the web indicates that the way you take nystatin is one of the recommended (by Big Medicine) ways to take it - "swish in mouth five minutes before swallowing" or some such. I was under the impression that homeopathy always meant many, many dilutions, so that only the "spirit" or "memory" of the drug remained, but that doesn't sound like what you are doing.

VoF - I don't think anyone here doubts that many irreplaceable medicines can be extracted from plants. What I disbelieve is that 1) there is anything mystical or superior about a drug just becauseit came from a plant instead of a lab, and 2) that the extreme dilutions used by at least some homeopaths could possibly be effective for anything. It takes a couple of micrograms of even something as deadly as tetrodotoxin or Sarin to kill you: a femtogram of each won't do anything measureable or noticeable to you. And "traditional" homeopathy, as I understand it, goes way below even that sort of level to the point of absence of even one molecule of drug. That is mumbo-jumbo, and not medicine.

Herbal cures are another matter - the problems I see there are not that the patient is going unmedicated. The proper diagnosis of the true illness by a possibly untrained practicioner, and the quality control of plant extracts seem to me to be the sticky points there. An example from my youth: Arkansas Home-Grown had a mere fraction of the potency of Acapulco Gold. And other plants are bound to be just like hemp: not every leaf, or farm, has the same concentration of goodie. That's where there is probably a real need for herbal medicine to be more than a cottage industry; they at least need a reproducible way to assay their wares.

Edited to add: Gurdur, we want another story, Pleeease?!

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: Coragyps ]

05-20-2002, 06:47 PM	#70
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	Bree - my 10-minute research endeavor on the web indicates that the way you take nystatin is one of the recommended (by Big Medicine) ways to take it - "swish in mouth five minutes before swallowing" or some such. I was under the impression that homeopathy always meant many, many dilutions, so that only the "spirit" or "memory" of the drug remained, but that doesn't sound like what you are doing. VoF - I don't think anyone here doubts that many irreplaceable medicines can be extracted from plants. What I disbelieve is that 1) there is anything mystical or superior about a drug just becauseit came from a plant instead of a lab, and 2) that the extreme dilutions used by at least some homeopaths could possibly be effective for anything. It takes a couple of micrograms of even something as deadly as tetrodotoxin or Sarin to kill you: a femtogram of each won't do anything measureable or noticeable to you. And "traditional" homeopathy, as I understand it, goes way below even that sort of level to the point of absence of even one molecule of drug. That is mumbo-jumbo, and not medicine. Herbal cures are another matter - the problems I see there are not that the patient is going unmedicated. The proper diagnosis of the true illness by a possibly untrained practicioner, and the quality control of plant extracts seem to me to be the sticky points there. An example from my youth: Arkansas Home-Grown had a mere fraction of the potency of Acapulco Gold. And other plants are bound to be just like hemp: not every leaf, or farm, has the same concentration of goodie. That's where there is probably a real need for herbal medicine to be more than a cottage industry; they at least need a reproducible way to assay their wares. Edited to add: Gurdur, we want another story, Pleeease?! [ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: Coragyps ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-20-2002, 06:01 PM	#61
Mad Kally Banned Join Date: May 2001 Location: LALA Land in California Posts: 3,764	Bree, Nystatin is used by cancer patients who have mouth sores (stomatitis) caused by chemotherapy drugs. Sometimes it's combined with Lidocaine and hydrogen peroxide and it works quite well.

05-20-2002, 06:06 PM	#63
Veil of Fire Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 451	Bree: Or prayer. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> As if there's anything at all we don't know 100% of every detail about. Anything that's not completely infallibly scientifically proven a billion times is complete and total bullshit with no redeeming value whatsoever. That's the message I consistantly get out of here. We know everything, so if there's some little bit that's not explained, well, it obviously can't possibly be anything more than a placebo.

05-20-2002, 06:11 PM	#65
Gurdur Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Buggered if I know Posts: 12,410	I guess this means no-one wants another story ?

05-20-2002, 06:14 PM	#66
Veil of Fire Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 451	..but really, only the chemicals we put in high-priced pills actually DO anything. All the rest are just placebos.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.