Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Per · 06-26-2003, 04:45 AM

Sometimes in American sitcoms I either hear the phrase "Don't use all the hot water" when a person is about to take a shower, or I hear complaints that a person did use all the hot water showering so that there isn't any hot water left for the next person.

Is this something that happens in real life too, or is it merely a plot device? If genuine, how does it work? Does the waterwork only allow for a set quantity of hot water for each household before it turns it off? How large is this quantity? Have any of you been forced to take cold showers because of this?

HelenM · 06-26-2003, 04:51 AM

That's nothing. I've lived and stayed in houses in England where you knew there was not enough hot water for a bath (there was no shower) unless you planned ahead and turned on the hot water heating ahead of time...

Helen

Per · 06-26-2003, 05:18 AM

So it is true? How much hot water do each household get? Can you buy more?

HelenM · 06-26-2003, 05:23 AM

My house (which is in the US) has a hot water tank that is 'always on'. If I wanted I could get a bigger one. But there's no need - I can only remember running out of hot water once or twice in the 10 years we've lived here. It certainly has enough for two people to have showers, one right after the other.

Some of my family members in England - actually, all of them, now, I think - have had showers put in which heat the water as it goes through the shower. Hence, no need to prepare hot water ahead of time. That saves money as compared with heating a tank full that may or may not be used. It would waste money to have a bigger tank than a house needed.

What system do you have, then, Per?

Helen

dunadan · 06-26-2003, 05:23 AM

Our method for hot water in the USA is different than many other parts of the world. In the US, we have an insulated container (like a thermos) that has a heating element (either natural gas or electric) to keep a continual supply of hot water. The problem is, when several people have to take a shower in a short period of time, the tank will use this water faster than more water can be heated. Thus, the last person to take a shower can have the hot water run out, and the water will get COLD very quickly. Not pleasant when you have just got all soaped up!

This problem can usually be avoided by giving the water heater a chance to reheat the water, usually 15 to 30 minutes.

Per · 06-26-2003, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM
What system do you have, then, Per?

Without knowing too much about it: The (cold) water goes from the waterworks to a heating facility/plant which heats the water and sends it through pipes to the households. (The same plant also heats water for central heating btw.)

The reason I'm asking is that I'll be staying at a hotel in New York and want to asses my risk of having to take cold showers.

HelenM · 06-26-2003, 05:34 AM

U.S. Hotels vary. In good ones the showers are awesome. In not-so-good ones the water pressure and temperature can fluctuate according to if other people in rooms near you decide to have showers at the same time as you. It's very unlikely that the shower in the hotel will be cold but I've had experiences where the temperature varies enough during the shower - because of other people showering at the same time, I assume - that it's not the most fun experience.

Is your water really heated in some central place outside your residence? And the same for central heating? Wow, I've never heard of that. So, do you have any controls over it where you live? What if the central heating is too hot or cold for your personal preference? How do you pay for central heating and hot water - do they measure how much you use?

Helen

Ovazor · 06-26-2003, 05:35 AM

Hot water is made by warming up cold water in the same building it is used. Iit is not delivered by the water works, if there are hot water pipes coming to your house, they are a part of the district heating system. This water is not allowed to mix with the tap water in most systems. Some forms of district heating use steam instead of hot water to transport the heat.

Most forms of heating cannot warm the water as fast as it is used, so the warm water is stored in atank. This is drained from the top, where the hot water is, and as it is drained, it is refilled with cold water from the bottom. It is surprising, that this doesn't lead to tankful of lukewarm water, but the tempereture difference between the top and the bottom of the reservoir can be quite large.

In such system there is only a limited amount of hot water available, and as it can be used more quikly than generated, it can run out. Taking shower consumes hot water fast. How fast this happens depends on the size of the tank.

If you live in house warmed with district heating, the hot water can be warmed quicly, so there is no danger of cold showers because the hot water runs out.

HelenM · 06-26-2003, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ovazor
Hot water is made by warming up cold water in the same building it is used. Iit is not delivered by the water works, if there are hot water pipes coming to your house, they are a part of the district heating system. This water is not allowed to mix with the tap water in most systems. Some forms of district heating use steam instead of hot water to transport the heat.

So you do have 'district heating' - wow - that seems inefficient - it seems that a lot of energy must be dissipated as water or steam goes between the district plant and individual houses. How do they keep the water/steam hot enough as it travels in between?

Helen

Ovazor · 06-26-2003, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM
So you do have 'district heating' - wow - that seems inefficient - it seems that a lot of energy must be dissipated as water or steam goes between the district plant and individual houses. How do they keep the water/steam hot enough as it travels in between?

Helen

The heating water is very hot (about 110 centigrades) and under pressure, which keeps it boiling. The pipes are well insulated and buried underground. Of course there are losses, but they are not that big problem in cities where distances are small. I don't know about steam systems, I've only heard that they are not as efficient.

As for efficiency, using the extra heat from electric plants for heating purposes is very efficient, both economically and energywise. This way almost twice as much useful energy -some electricity, some heat- is gained from a given amount of fuel than if the heat was just sent to the sky or driven to sea.

06-26-2003, 04:45 AM	#1
Per Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 386	Americana question: "Don't use all the hot water" Sometimes in American sitcoms I either hear the phrase "Don't use all the hot water" when a person is about to take a shower, or I hear complaints that a person did use all the hot water showering so that there isn't any hot water left for the next person. Is this something that happens in real life too, or is it merely a plot device? If genuine, how does it work? Does the waterwork only allow for a set quantity of hot water for each household before it turns it off? How large is this quantity? Have any of you been forced to take cold showers because of this?

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06-26-2003, 04:51 AM	#2
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	That's nothing. I've lived and stayed in houses in England where you knew there was not enough hot water for a bath (there was no shower) unless you planned ahead and turned on the hot water heating ahead of time... Helen

06-26-2003, 05:18 AM	#3
Per Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 386	So it is true? How much hot water do each household get? Can you buy more?

06-26-2003, 05:23 AM	#4
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	My house (which is in the US) has a hot water tank that is 'always on'. If I wanted I could get a bigger one. But there's no need - I can only remember running out of hot water once or twice in the 10 years we've lived here. It certainly has enough for two people to have showers, one right after the other. Some of my family members in England - actually, all of them, now, I think - have had showers put in which heat the water as it goes through the shower. Hence, no need to prepare hot water ahead of time. That saves money as compared with heating a tank full that may or may not be used. It would waste money to have a bigger tank than a house needed. What system do you have, then, Per? Helen

06-26-2003, 05:23 AM	#5
dunadan Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: St Louis, MO Posts: 499	Our method for hot water in the USA is different than many other parts of the world. In the US, we have an insulated container (like a thermos) that has a heating element (either natural gas or electric) to keep a continual supply of hot water. The problem is, when several people have to take a shower in a short period of time, the tank will use this water faster than more water can be heated. Thus, the last person to take a shower can have the hot water run out, and the water will get COLD very quickly. Not pleasant when you have just got all soaped up! This problem can usually be avoided by giving the water heater a chance to reheat the water, usually 15 to 30 minutes.

06-26-2003, 05:34 AM	#7
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	U.S. Hotels vary. In good ones the showers are awesome. In not-so-good ones the water pressure and temperature can fluctuate according to if other people in rooms near you decide to have showers at the same time as you. It's very unlikely that the shower in the hotel will be cold but I've had experiences where the temperature varies enough during the shower - because of other people showering at the same time, I assume - that it's not the most fun experience. Is your water really heated in some central place outside your residence? And the same for central heating? Wow, I've never heard of that. So, do you have any controls over it where you live? What if the central heating is too hot or cold for your personal preference? How do you pay for central heating and hot water - do they measure how much you use? Helen

06-26-2003, 05:35 AM	#8
Ovazor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 884	Hot water is made by warming up cold water in the same building it is used. Iit is not delivered by the water works, if there are hot water pipes coming to your house, they are a part of the district heating system. This water is not allowed to mix with the tap water in most systems. Some forms of district heating use steam instead of hot water to transport the heat. Most forms of heating cannot warm the water as fast as it is used, so the warm water is stored in atank. This is drained from the top, where the hot water is, and as it is drained, it is refilled with cold water from the bottom. It is surprising, that this doesn't lead to tankful of lukewarm water, but the tempereture difference between the top and the bottom of the reservoir can be quite large. In such system there is only a limited amount of hot water available, and as it can be used more quikly than generated, it can run out. Taking shower consumes hot water fast. How fast this happens depends on the size of the tank. If you live in house warmed with district heating, the hot water can be warmed quicly, so there is no danger of cold showers because the hot water runs out.

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