Bookman

I at least retain some doubts, so no thanks. I'm having good success with a more balanced approach, and I think I'll stick to what's working for me.

When you were doing this, did you quantify what you now refer to as "massive amounts"? Did you measure at all? An argument has been made that one of the reasons that high-protein works is that people just consume fewer calories when they have so few choices. Assuming that one doesn't measure, how does one adequately deal with that argument?

How do someone know that they aren't guilty of self deception? It seems to me very possible that a "license" to eat unlimited amounts of so-called "bad" foods could create the perception of overeating when in fact one's calorie count had been reduced (and unfortunately, some very important nutrients had gone by the boards).

Bookman

Totalitarianist

Point taken.

Machiavelli

Self Deception eh' ....what an argument...such a clever way to discount a persons first hand experience.

Why not just say I'm full of shit.

I think it's funny that you reject this dietary thinking, and are unwilling to try it even in the face of so much evidence.

Christians have a similar problem with evolution.

Bookman

I made every effort in my post to make the remark general and not personal. I'm sorry that you chose to take it the way that you did. I haven't had many exchanges with you on II, but if you knew me better you would (hopefully) know that I do try to be courteous. I honestly meant no offense.

The forum is called Science and Skepticism and self-deception is an important problem in science. The question stands if you wish to give some consideration to it.

I "reject this dietary thinking" as you put it not because I claim it doesn't work, but rather because:

1) I have an alternative which seems to work for me
2) I'm concerned about the consequences of the diet, even if successful in creating weight loss

I'm not skeptical that it works! I am skeptical that it works for the reason that you believe it works and I'm skeptical that it is a good long term eating plan for reasons which I've mentioned previously.

I'm not certain where your Christians/ Evolution comment comes from. Where have I indicated a dogmatic adherance to a set of beliefs in spite of evidence to the contrary?

Bookman

Pain Paien

I can't see why not, I was very clear.

My point is that the Atkins diet is NOT the magic fix that it is often made out to be. I'm not blaming this perception on anyone, but it does seem to be what many people think. I have no problem with the Atkins program if it's effective, it's merely my position that it's a large change in diet, and thus difficult to adhere to for many Americans, when compared to a diet that has a larger variety of foods taken in moderation. If this kind of diet doesn't suit some people, and the Atkins diet does, great. I just know that for me personally, and I'm sure for many other people as well, the Atkins diet would be very hard to stick to. Again, I have absolutely no problem with the Atkins diet, I simply don't think it's always a good solution.

JGL53

Pain Paien and Bookman - you don't care for what you THINK the Atkins diet is.

- Well, Fair enough. But I'm having severe problems understanding what your objections are to other people chosing to eat a low carb or carb controlled diet.

So they merely eat less calories?

- So what? Is this suppose to be an important point?

You THINK the diet, as you define it (?) will be hard to stick to by other people?

- Again, so what? Some can stick to it, some can't.

You're "concerned about the consequences of the diet, even if successful in creating weight loss "?

- Again, so what?

You're skeptical that it works for the reason that I believe it works (?) and you're skeptical that it is a good long term eating plan for reasons which I've mentioned previously?

- Again, so what?

So an argument has been made that one of the reasons that high-protein works is that people just consume fewer calories when they have so few choices?

Yeah, so what?

It seems to you very possible that a "license" to eat unlimited amounts of so-called "bad" foods could create the perception of overeating when in fact one's calorie count had been reduced (and unfortunately, some very important nutrients had gone by the boards).

- I can't say 'so what' here, because I don't have a clue as to what you are trying to say.

You don't understand my analysis?

-Well, fair enough. But so what?

I stated (?) that one only needs a certain amount of "easily metabolized energy" and want to draw a conclusion about what proportion of that to eat compared to other foods? If one only needs a certain amount, does it not make sense to talk about limiting one's self to that amount rather than targeting a percentage of one's intake?

- Again, all this is so convoluted, I can't understand what you are saying. What are you saying? Is it anything of interest to anyone?

Bookman

I'm not really sure how to respond. I have stated that I think that the high-fat, high-protein Atkins plan isn't for me, and that I believe that it may have unnecessary health consequences for people trying to lose weight. I'm not certain what is so unclear about my responses, and have no idea how to reply to "so what".

I'm sorry that some of my responses leave you clueless. They seem to me to be in plain English. :shrug:

Bookman

JGL53

We have no argument here. The Atkins diet is not for you. This is certainly clear enough for me. No problem with this concept of you not personally liking the diet. But, as an aside, I've never dreamed for an instant that the diet was for everyone, anyway.

[/B][/QUOTE] ... I believe that it may have unnecessary health consequences for people trying to lose weight.
[/B][/QUOTE]

And those "unnecessary health consequences" are what, exactly? And in comparison to what alternative(s), exactly?

In reading back though your previous posts, I see no evidence offered by you to support this contention about these alleged "unnecessary health consequences". Again, what exactly are they?

Apparently, according to you, my seeming good health could be in grave danger due to my ignorance. Please enlighten me - and others who may be in the same predicament. Give us the 'facts' as, not as you 'believe' them to be, but as what you can demonstate them to be. Thanks for your time.

Godot

There is more to a dietary regime than merely weight loss. You need to take into account an individuals lifestyle, financial situation, short and long term goals, and above all else, the potential impact of the diet over their long term health.
JGL & Machiavelli:
You both seem to advocate the benefits of the Atkins regime from personal experience alone. Many skeptical people aren't particularly comfortable with accepting the validity of testimonials, myslef included. If the regime works for you, congratulations I hope you're happy. The fact that it works for you is poorly indicative of whether it will work for me or the next guy though; a testimonial cannot supplant scientific evidence in a scientific discussion. A sufficiently large number of testimonials can suggest that a phenomena be investigated in a scientific framework (which is the direction being taken with Atkins, I might add).
I said it before and I'll say it again: I would not recommend the Atkins diet to anyone before seeing the results of long term studies.

Godot

As to the claim of eating 10,000 calories a day and still losing weight, I am going to come right out and call bullshit.
The only way this could be true is if you are burning a greater amount of energy than you are consuming. Elite level athletes involved in heavy training might be able to burn as much as 8,000 calories in a day. There is insufficient time in the day to consume that much energy unless you were consuming a diet nearly entirely composed of fat (and that is far from healthy).
The only way you could covince me otherwise would be to post a detailed list of foods and quantities consumed. You would also need to provide an activity log delineating frequency, intensity, and type of physical activity undertaken. Finally, you would need to specify if this was your regular pattern of intake or if it was an abberation.