Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Starboy · 03-30-2003, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trillian1
One of my favorites:
This story is near impossible to "reinterpret" without still making Jesus a racist meanie. To get Jesus to help she has to kneel, beg, and agree that she is a dog. You likely won't hear this one in a Sunday sermon.

The other thing about that story is that Jesus in his own words states that he was a Jewish savior and not a savior of the gentiles. It would imply that Paul was a fraud and that these last two thousand years of Christianity have been a big lie. Maybe that is also why you don't hear about it much in church as well. Oh well.

Starboy

Bubba · 03-30-2003, 04:34 PM

Good point Starboy

Bubba

Hadn't really thought of that verse that wy before...

Family Man · 03-30-2003, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bubba
Not sure that works, M...Christianity is a historical religion and most historical facts are eye-witness recordings left by people who cannot come to court to testify as it were.

Bubba, playing devil's advocate.

That's presuming that the record left by Christians is as qualitatively the same as other historical documents. Biblical scholars will tell you the the Bible was not written as a historical document, but as a statement of faith. It may contain history, but it is not a historical document and can not be treated as such.

Volker.Doormann · 03-31-2003, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bubba
If you were in a debate with someone and could only present one piece of evidence against Christianity, what would it be?

Bubba

One can show in that debate by evidence, that each arguing of a member of Christianity regarding to the Christian belief is of no evidence or reason ever (If there is any evidence or reason, it is not regarding to the Christian belief).

Volker

Secular Pinoy · 03-31-2003, 05:32 AM

The history of the bible proves that Christianity, and Judaism before it, is a cult no different from the rest.

Carrie · 03-31-2003, 08:37 AM

Archaeology. "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein is a great book to disprove the Bible. There's no proof that the Israelites were slaves in Egypt, and no proof of an Exodus.

sensate · 03-31-2003, 08:41 AM

Resurection myths that predate Christianity. The whole Isis, Osiris, Horus myth for example. C.S. Lewis called these myths echos, although I think he is a bit confused. An echo occurs after a sound is made. Christianity is an echo of the pagan world.

cpickett · 03-31-2003, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by trillian1
One of my favorites:
This story is near impossible to "reinterpret" without still making Jesus a racist meanie. To get Jesus to help she has to kneel, beg, and agree that she is a dog. You likely won't hear this one in a Sunday sermon.

I pointed that out to a Christian last year, this was his reply:

Quote:

When the disciples were sent out they were told not to witness to the gentiles. Jesus was still with them, the Jews were whom Jesus was witnessing to and who the Messiah was sent to. Jesus is the jewish Messiah, they were his ministry. After Jesus assended into heaven, and the Holy Spirit was given to the disciples at Pentecost they still only preached to the Jews. Not until Acts 10 chapter does the Holy Spirit instruct Peter that it is proper to preach to the Gentiles. Paul later becomes the main follower of Christ who spreads the gosple to the Gentiles.

So basically Jesus wasn't sent to "witness" to us heathens, but the Holy Spirit decided that it might be a good idea. Which makes me wonder, how do they think they will be saved, when iJesus specifically wasn't here for them....

BioBeing · 03-31-2003, 10:11 AM

Minnesota

Quote:

I'd take the Judge Judy Approach: Written testimony is simply inadmissable evidence. Unless the person who made the statement is here in court such testimony is worthless.

Bubba

Quote:

Not sure that works, M...Christianity is a historical religion and most historical facts are eye-witness recordings left by people who cannot come to court to testify as it were.

Bubba, playing devil's advocate.

God could testify. Lets issue a summons and see if he shows up.

To the OP: Christianity is so vague, that the question is not that simple. The evidence has to be tailored to the persons specific beliefs. To a Biblical Creationist/Intelligent Designer, I use evolution and science, since it is what I know best. But to someone who accepts evolution as a natural process, then I use the IPU.

Starboy · 03-31-2003, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cpickett
I pointed that out to a Christian last year, this was his reply:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When the disciples were sent out they were told not to witness to the gentiles. Jesus was still with them, the Jews were whom Jesus was witnessing to and who the Messiah was sent to. Jesus is the jewish Messiah, they were his ministry. After Jesus assended into heaven, and the Holy Spirit was given to the disciples at Pentecost they still only preached to the Jews. Not until Acts 10 chapter does the Holy Spirit instruct Peter that it is proper to preach to the Gentiles. Paul later becomes the main follower of Christ who spreads the gosple to the Gentiles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice try but the only one who could vouch for the Holy Spirit visitation was the one who claimed to be visited. As such it should be inadmissable (and highly suspect). At least the original "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel" Jesus quote is attributed to have had several witnesses. Add to that the non-acceptance acceptance of Paul by the pillars of Jerusalem and the whole story just stinks to high heaven.

Starboy

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03-30-2003, 04:34 PM	#12
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	Good point Starboy Bubba Hadn't really thought of that verse that wy before...

03-31-2003, 05:32 AM	#15
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	The history of the bible proves that Christianity, and Judaism before it, is a cult no different from the rest.

03-31-2003, 08:37 AM	#16
Carrie Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 424	Archaeology. "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein is a great book to disprove the Bible. There's no proof that the Israelites were slaves in Egypt, and no proof of an Exodus.

03-31-2003, 08:41 AM	#17
sensate Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 438	Resurection myths that predate Christianity. The whole Isis, Osiris, Horus myth for example. C.S. Lewis called these myths echos, although I think he is a bit confused. An echo occurs after a sound is made. Christianity is an echo of the pagan world.

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