sidewinder

To Any Christian: If you believe the Bible was divinely inspired in some manner (I know there are at least a few definitions of what "divinely inspired" means), why wouldn't the Christian God simply have made sure that the Bible was much clearer so to avoid all the problems this lack of clarity has caused over the last 2000 years? Your God wouldn't have had to "take over" humans in composing His message but He could've at least made sure most people through all ages would be able to understand it pretty clearly. Your God could've also made an effort to at least minimize errors and contradictions. As a result of all these errors and contradictions, you have many (opposite) viewpoints contained with the Bible.

Reminds me of the one episode of the Simpsons where the Flanders family home is destroyed by a hurricane and Ned is in church and asks God why these things have happened to him. Ned lists all the good Christian things he's done, which includes doing everything the Bible says, even the things that contradict one another.

HelenM

I'm sure they will forgive you that

I didn't know you had epilepsy, btw.

I went to a seminar a few months ago about all they can do for it now.

I hope that yours is a relatively treatable type.

It's my secondary diagnosis although I'm not sure how valid it is - it was made once and the doctor who ordered the EEG trace lost it (I have switched since then, to a new doctor). Anyway my main one is Bipolar and the meds are the same for TLE anyway so...it doesn't make any difference; I haven't had any seizures since that one time when I was manic and they said I was having them too...

I guess this was off-topic. Oh well

love
Helen

pescifish

Kally, I must have mis-written that, I think, if you feel we are pulling different strokes here. I was referring only to my own reaction to the anger and hate and explaining that I have become tolerant of that, too.

I am more comfortable in a group of people who with a "live and let live" attitude, but I have come to understand much of the anger and frustration from the members of this board and I have become more comfortable with that aspect of the community in the past few months I've been here.

Mad Kally

I am more comfortable in a group of people who with a "live and let live" attitude

So am I, but I was raised around people who felt the need to force it down my throat (fundies). I was mad as hell when I got here. My anger was justified. I don't really care who is a xian or not as long as they stay out of my face and stop condemning me to hell.

I am a good decent person with morals. I have to keep saying that to myself because of all the brainwashing I have been subjected to. Not to mention the hatred of ME because I refused to continue pretending that I was one of the sheep.

BTW, I've had many Catholic friends who were very nice and the subject never even came up.. wow

pescifish

Ok, now that one I just can't tolerate!

Whenever thoughts like that pop up, come find me and I'll see if I can chase 'em away.

Zippy

Live and let live is fine, but this is far more than just a personal issue.

Religion is a very dangerous form of ignorance that could well lead to our extinction, so it's not just a case of 'oh, let the deluded masses believe whatever they like'. Well, it can be of course. But don't complain when the world gets blown up by a bunch of religious halfwits who think they're doing god's work.

Paul

Brian63

I personally used to be very anti-religion, as much as many members of this board currently are, but my views have softened dramatically over the past year and a half. I now see religion as not only being beneficial for society, but actually necessary. Bill Schultz (one of the administrators of this board) made some thought-provoking comments about this point-of-view in <a href="http://iidb.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=56&t=000150" target="_blank">this thread</a>.

I do not see religion per se as being problematic (quite the contrary), but it is fundamentalism that is unhealthy for society.

Brian

P.S. I also just finished reading "The Power of Myth" (a transcript of interviews of Joseph Campbell by Bill Moyers), and it serves as a reminder of all the beauty and purpose that religions, rituals, and myths serve in society, and how their absence can be harmful to our well-being.

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: Brian63 ]</p>

wildernesse

Zippy

Thank you for letting me know that I am ignorant and deluded. I'm sure that several Christian trolls would be able to say the same for you. Are you a troll?

The last time I said that it wasn't very nice for an atheist to say I was deluded, I was told that the truth hurts. Why is it that Christians who tell the "truth" about atheists going to hell are heartily condemned (and rightly so), but atheists can say that I'm a deluded brainwashed half-wit hell-bent on the extinction of the human race and no one really cares? Neither of these are very conducive to a civil dialogue.

And,Zippy, how would you combat those half-wits who are trying to destroy everything? Since you feel so strongly about it, surely you are doing something. Maybe you shouldn't give out your plans, because the theists here could think of ways to foil it--no, wait we're all half-wits! We'd never be able to stop you brilliant, far-sighted, rational atheists! GRRRRRRR!

Wait! What's that! I feel. . . angry! Well, it's all solved then, obviously since I'm angry and my above paragraph is provocative I'm really an atheist playing games with you behind my keyboard! Well, that's a relief!

--tiba

Walter_Mitty

Rev. Joshua writes:

Curious, how do you tell which sect or denomination is right?

I believe the "tradition" of biblical interpretation before the schism, was a very literal one. Is this the tradition that you speak of?

To bad all those other denominations can't seem to develop a consistent hermeneutic. I would be interested in hearing what your consistent principles are.

Brian63

tiba,

In defense of Zippy, I would just say that I used to hold the same opinion the he/she does, but I do not anymore. It just took a little bit of research and learning to overcome that attitude.

I do not want to sound condescending to Zippy, because for all I know he/she has very well-thought out reasons to conclude that religion is inherently harmful and disastrous to society. It is just that I have never seen a compelling defense of that point of view, and do not believe there is one.

The opinion that religion=evil is one based in ignorance, I now believe, but I certainly would not have say, a year ago. A lot of atheists hold the view that religion is evil, but *hopefully* that attitude will change over time. We just have to give people that time to understand it.

Brian