meritocrat

I'm not referring to euthanasia. Not all instances of suicide are linked to the relief of terminal illness.

Buddrow_Wilson

For some, mental anguish and emotional pain can be just as debilitating as physical. Can you see from this perspective why someone might be motivated to end the pain? The difference is there is some hope of alleviating the mental pain. This is why I hope you could understand or "get" suicide. How can we help someone if we don't try to see life through their eyes?

winstonjen

Exactly. So you would rather choose death rather than a painful and pointless existence?

And I have no sympathy for those who want to force other people to live. It's nothing less than slavery. If you don't own your life, what do you own?

Ice

meritocrat:

No one's asking for sympathy. Just empathy for a fellow human person.

And, as BW pointed out, some mental illnesses make it difficult for some to live life as they want. Do you believe that life should be lived as one wants (within boundaries of the law and individual rights), and not as what others want you live it as? I have heard arguments that mental illnesses can/should be cured or alleviated, but that was based on the premise that life MUST be lived.

And if it is selfish to die, isn't it selfish for others to ask others not to die because they'll be heartbroken?

meritocrat

No. Some laws prohibit actions that infringe on no one's rights. You need to rethink your definition of freedom.
Why shouldn't mental illness be cured? Doesn't curing illness (of any severity or magnitude) improve one's quality of life?[quote]

Ice

So you believe life shouldn't be lived as one wants (within boundaries of the law and individual rights)? Or is there a middle ground. If so, why draw the line just beyond suicide?


Because many make it sound as though curing mental illness is as easy as popping pills. I'm not against cures/therapies, but can all mental illnesses be cured? What is the yardstick for considering one "cured"? Till he no longer desires to kill himself? If so, that's what I'm talking about - it is based on the premise that people MUST live their lives.

meritocrat

I simply said I disagreed with your definition of freedom. People should do as they please whilst respecting others' freedoms. In that sense, suicide does not necessarily infringe on one's freedom.

A person can easily condone something, yet not personally approve of it.

Ice

Okay, I think you got the "freedom" part from my use of "within the boundaries of the law". I based that on Western-based legal systems which do not not 'punish' suicide, or at least, successful suicide attempts (how exactly do you punish a dead person anyway?).

Jackalope

I know you're being facetious, however:

Autoimmune diseases can cause depression whether or not they're treated. It seems to be part of the disease process. It appears that the various interlukins are involved, but which particular ones are to blame is still up in the air. Blocking certain ILs can actually cause depression.

Certain drugs used to treat autoimmune diseases can also cause severe depression. The interferon-beta1A blocker Avonex that is used to treat multiple sclerosis has a known side effect of depression and suicidal thoughts. Kineret is an interlukin-1alpha blocker used for rheumatoid arthritis and psoriatic arthritis. It also can cause severe depression, and many rheumatologists only prescribe it along with an antidepressant. Steroids, on the other hand, tend to cause mood swings, manic behavior, irritability and occasionally paranoia rather than depression.

Chronic pain causes its own changes to the endocrine system, which can also cause depression. While there are effective treatments for pain, not all doctors are willing to prescribe them and not all patients respond equally well to them. And face it, how willing would you be to have a sunny disposition if you had to take a painkiller every morning just to crawl out of bed? From my own personal experience, it's not exactly a life-affirming thing.

Then there are the hormonal problems that can cause depression as well. Hormonal forms of birth control are well-known for causing depression. There are also some hormonal disorders that by themselves can cause depression and need to be treated both with hormones and antidepressants.

In all these cases, talk therapy is worth spit. It's a chemcial problem.

[For the record, I'm the one with rheumatoid arthritis and taking steroids actually improved my frame of mind simply because I wasn't in terrible pain and incredibly weak and prone to collapsing at any hint of stress after I went on prednisone. I seem to be an anomaly, since most people become worse, not better-tempered while on steroids.]
--Lee

Psychic

well, that was infroming! I am a medical student myself, and these days actually I am doing my orthopedics rotation, and the infromation you supplied is of relavnce.
I promise you to take more care of our RA patients I'll be extra nice to them I guess every bit of support can be helpful fighting depression.
I'll check if they are in need for antidepressants. people here like to be more stoic and they never admitt pain or depression.

and I hope no offense was taken from my ugly remark there.